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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

04-15-2019 , 09:50 PM
Oh, sorry, thought I had that in there. Hero has about $620 (edited in to post now), and two Vs cover.
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04-15-2019 , 09:54 PM
Oh, well that makes a bit of a difference.
I think we generally ignore the short stacks unless we have a good read they may want to shove.

I'd aim for closer to $95 - $110, turn will strongly depend on what it is, and how many people call. Generally I'd look to gii over 3 streets unless a .75psb would gii against the largest V stack ott.
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04-15-2019 , 10:44 PM
Is it gauche to just give advice instead of ask a question?

2x this week I stacked someone by moving in for X x pot when they were obviously strong-ish.

Raise KQ. Check around all the way to river. 689TJ. He bets 20. I put him in for like 200 more. He calls with Q.

Raise QJ. Q74. I Bet/call. Q74J. I Bet/call. River Q. I move in for 250 into about 100. takes 5 secs to call with KQ.

I think I'd kind of forgotten that this works and had been betting like 90% of pot or whatever in these situations, like a moron. Obv. V dependent, but good for a few extra buy ins a year.
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04-15-2019 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
1/3NL

Hero ($620) has aggressive winning image. Has just shown down QQ as a winning hand twice in the last orbit or so. First was an open over a straddle, half-stack V 3-bet and hero 4-bets AI. V called, and never showed. Second was a straddle with a couple of calls, hero raises to $30 and gets one call. Hero has super-aggro image at this point, esp in straddled pots, so decides to show after V folds to c-bet.

No straddle this hand. 3 limps to Hero OTB, who looks down at AA. This game has been playing more GG-style, with folks reluctant to fold even to big raises after they limp, so Hero sizes up a bit, and goes $25.

Turns out I could probably have made it even bigger. Both blinds and all three limpers call. Stacks vary from $80 left in the tilted half-stacker's rebuy, 3 V's in the $200-300 range, and two who cover.

Pot $145
Flop Ac8d2c
Everyone checks to hero who ??


We need to bet here but it’s hard for villains to have much, so I would be betting $55-60 on flop to get value from the last remaining A and any non believing pocket pairs.

Betting a lot larger on turn (exact pot % depends on number of flop callers) so that we can get it in on river
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04-16-2019 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
1/3NL

Hero ($620) has aggressive winning image. Has just shown down QQ as a winning hand twice in the last orbit or so. First was an open over a straddle, half-stack V 3-bet and hero 4-bets AI. V called, and never showed. Second was a straddle with a couple of calls, hero raises to $30 and gets one call. Hero has super-aggro image at this point, esp in straddled pots, so decides to show after V folds to c-bet.

No straddle this hand. 3 limps to Hero OTB, who looks down at AA. This game has been playing more GG-style, with folks reluctant to fold even to big raises after they limp, so Hero sizes up a bit, and goes $25.

Turns out I could probably have made it even bigger. Both blinds and all three limpers call. Stacks vary from $80 left in the tilted half-stacker's rebuy, 3 V's in the $200-300 range, and two who cover.

Pot $145
Flop Ac8d2c
Everyone checks to hero who ??
Y’all might think this is too risky/dangerous to try, but what about betting $35 here so that short stack can potentially shove over the top, someone can potentially call that raise by shorty, and we can still over shove on top of all that action, since it wouldn’t be a short raise as it would be if we went bigger?
This seems like a good way to gain extra value and GII against a lighter hand on one of the bigger stacks.
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04-16-2019 , 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
1/3NL

Hero ($620) has aggressive winning image. Has just shown down QQ as a winning hand twice in the last orbit or so. First was an open over a straddle, half-stack V 3-bet and hero 4-bets AI. V called, and never showed. Second was a straddle with a couple of calls, hero raises to $30 and gets one call. Hero has super-aggro image at this point, esp in straddled pots, so decides to show after V folds to c-bet.

No straddle this hand. 3 limps to Hero OTB, who looks down at AA. This game has been playing more GG-style, with folks reluctant to fold even to big raises after they limp, so Hero sizes up a bit, and goes $25.

Turns out I could probably have made it even bigger. Both blinds and all three limpers call. Stacks vary from $80 left in the tilted half-stacker's rebuy, 3 V's in the $200-300 range, and two who cover.

Pot $145
Flop Ac8d2c
Everyone checks to hero who ??
Preflop result is standard. After 3 limps and a lot of the field having $300-, I would have probably gone $30 just to have a decent chance of getting in 10% of stacks (my personal TP commitment goal, which is admittedly on the conservative side). Things get a little more difficult if the two bigger stacks are likely to come along (in which case I wouldn't hate overlimping the Button to reraise an aggro blind).

I PSB the flop. For realz. The only action you're getting here is from good hands or draws, and draws ain't folding to one bet. No one came to the casino to call a $25 raise preflop, flop a flush draw, and then fold it to one bet. Other than that it's very unlikely anyone has anything else that continue since we're hogging up most of the TP outs. So simply bet an amount to target the hands that can continue, cuz pretty much nothing else is continuing to any bet size.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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04-16-2019 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
Is it gauche to just give advice instead of ask a question?

2x this week I stacked someone by moving in for X x pot when they were obviously strong-ish.

Raise KQ. Check around all the way to river. 689TJ. He bets 20. I put him in for like 200 more. He calls with Q.

Raise QJ. Q74. I Bet/call. Q74J. I Bet/call. River Q. I move in for 250 into about 100. takes 5 secs to call with KQ.

I think I'd kind of forgotten that this works and had been betting like 90% of pot or whatever in these situations, like a moron. Obv. V dependent, but good for a few extra buy ins a year.
Against most opponents, I would probably shove into any size pot and just hope for the best.

Gnicehands,imoG
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04-16-2019 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
We need to bet here but it’s hard for villains to have much, so I would be betting $55-60 on flop to get value from the last remaining A and any non believing pocket pairs.

Betting a lot larger on turn (exact pot % depends on number of flop callers) so that we can get it in on river
This (especially the bolded) was a large part of my thoughts here, but I was also concerned that a tiny bet would seem out of character for me and be exploitable. Everyone at the table was a reg of one stripe or another, and I basically never bet under half-pot, or under 2/3 pot on FD boards.

I was concerned that the last ace and the PPs would smell a rat and fold, and I'd only get calls from FDs I was offering amazing odds to. I seriously considered just checking here and giving the FDs a free card in order to make the last ace and any PPs more likely to be non-believing OTT. OTOH, if I don't bet here, there's no way I'm getting stacks in if either of the deep stacks have a hand.
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04-16-2019 , 11:33 AM
In that case I would go $80.
And I dunno about showing the second QQ.
I do the same the odd time to keep my image somewhat respectable when I’m catching lots of cards, but I feel like keeping them guessing as often as possible is generally best.
In this case, it might have you getting called down lighter here.

(But of course, do what you want. You understand the dynamics of poker and who am I to say anything directly after saying I do the same when my image is super loose.)
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04-16-2019 , 12:19 PM
7 players - Blinds $5/5

Setup
UTG ($350 - 70BB)
MP - Hero [A♠︎J♠︎] covers UTG

Preflop (Pot size: 0)
UTG straddle $10
Hero bets $40
UTG calls $30

Flop (Pot size: 90) [Q♠︎8♠︎T♦︎]
UTG checks
Hero checks

Turn (Pot size: 90) [6♣︎]
UTG checks
Hero checks

River (Pot size: 90) [6♦︎]
UTG is allin $310

Flop feels like it is good for villiain’s range. So I elect to check. If I bet and he shoves I would be getting just about the right odds to call but I am very likely behind. Villain is an older Asian man. He hasn’t been playing few hands in the one hour I have been there. With that stack size should I just bet and get it in if shoved ? Thoughts on other streets ?
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04-16-2019 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabloid
If I bet and he shoves I would be getting just about the right odds to call but I am very likely behind.
???

You have a crushing hand. You're even money against top two. You're an equity favourite against any one pair hand. You're going to be a favourite against any reasonable continuing range from him. You want to be betting now because there's no downside to it and a host of small upsides: there's value to be had, you want to leverage up betting sizes in case you hit on a later street, you don't want to face bets OTT, you don't want to check down and lose to like 33.
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04-17-2019 , 01:20 AM
Yeah I played it very nitty.
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04-17-2019 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
In that case I would go $80.
And I dunno about showing the second QQ.
I do the same the odd time to keep my image somewhat respectable when I’m catching lots of cards, but I feel like keeping them guessing as often as possible is generally best.
In this case, it might have you getting called down lighter here.

(But of course, do what you want. You understand the dynamics of poker and who am I to say anything directly after saying I do the same when my image is super loose.)
Yeah, generally I'm against showing, but here I had specific image reasons. My general image is really straightforward, which actually lets me buy a lot of pots, and I was afraid it was getting maniacal. I can see arguments against it, though.

Results:
Spoiler:
Hero bets $100, everyone turbo mucks.
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04-20-2019 , 08:51 PM
1/3

V: fun action player who is a bit tilted quickly lost 400 dollars and this hand only had 105

He is straddling UTG to 12

Folds me in the BB and I have KQ off suit

With a tilty V is a jam okay here or +EV?
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04-20-2019 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32
1/3

V: fun action player who is a bit tilted quickly lost 400 dollars and this hand only had 105

He is straddling UTG to 12

Folds me in the BB and I have KQ off suit

With a tilty V is a jam okay here or +EV?


If straddle is live I would call to let him shove. Is straddle is not live, I would min raise to let him shove

Shoving yourself allows him to play better imo
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04-20-2019 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
If straddle is live I would call to let him shove. Is straddle is not live, I would min raise to let him shove

Shoving yourself allows him to play better imo
The straddle was live I don’t think he jams every time I limp tho
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04-20-2019 , 10:05 PM
It's probably a feel thing. But my experience is not many Vs are shoving ATC here when limped to. Maybe they are shoving like 1/3 or 1/4 of hands, but hands like 97 or Q4 he might still be happy to try hitting a flop.

I think a lot of maniacal guys do have some understanding of how people try to exploit them and avoid it at least sometimes. This is such a situation. "Oh you're gonna limp re-reais my straddle? I'm gonna check and outflop and stack you, lol."

KQ is kind of a nice shoving hand because you will crush him a lot when called... I think he calls lots of worse kings and queens. When he folds, you pick up a reasonable amount of money with no variance and no rake.

If you get it in against 85 you are 65/35. So you stick in 105 and get 139 back. -$6 rake (?) and $1 tip. Profit: 27. If you shove and take it down, you make $16. So getting called would be better.

But, I think shove/take it down is probably better than 3x or limp and he plays fit or fold and bluffs you sometimes.
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04-21-2019 , 08:15 PM
Been away for awhile but thought I would provide some feedback (open to further discussion) regarding my “heavy” use of this forum a few months back:

-realized no gains

As a result, I no longer do strat work (other than the occasional texting with people who know me personally and have questions).

Interesting huh?
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04-21-2019 , 08:44 PM
Sample size? "I didn't win more so studying is useless" seems like the problem likely isn't the fact that you were studying.
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04-21-2019 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Sample size? "I didn't win more so studying is useless" seems like the problem likely isn't the fact that you were studying.
Hey Garrick, I do think the problem was studying (in my case) to some extent...but you’re right on in that there are other issues (I just can’t work on some things properly as, well, you know...”anti-poker” mindsets).

I mean, I can practice to graze the back, front, or sides of a rim when making a basketball shot...but in games it seems counterproductive to incorporate such precision. Just get the points, right?

I don’t think I’m the first to come out and discourage over-thinking in live low stakes.
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04-21-2019 , 09:18 PM
You made 20 posts ITF on the 27th of January. Maybe try focusing down, doing about half and hour a day, choose one particular thing you want to work on, and limit your study to things related to that, then work it into your game, then move on. Shotgun approach is unlikely to help.
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04-21-2019 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
You made 20 posts ITF on the 27th of January. Maybe try focusing down, doing about half and hour a day, choose one particular thing you want to work on, and limit your study to things related to that, then work it into your game, then move on. Shotgun approach is unlikely to help.
Will do, thanks for the advice!

Half hr per, one topic,...got it. Start tmrw.
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04-22-2019 , 12:28 AM
4 Bet bluff experiment part 2. The professor becomes the subject. 1/2 $700 eff.

I straddle button for $5. SB makes a small raise to $12. He is one of the better 1/2 players I've come across. A local rec, with good card sense who is not a fearful player. Certainly a winning player. But solid and not spewy. We are both playing an extended session because there is a legendary spot with a big stack on my immediate right and V is on my left. I'm moderately fatigued.

I have QQ and make it $55. He thinks briefly and makes it $170. I tank. It smells fishy because of his small open, and because I have been pretty aggressive and he might think I'm up to no good.

I set about leveling myself. Nobody does this at 1/2. I won't like A or K high flops and won't be too crazy about J high. I want to remain deep against the spot. My cards and the preflop action as a whole do nothing to remove aces or kings (a couple of people had thoughtlessly called his small raise).

I veto my gut and fold.

I say "well, I'm pretty sure I just got owned," because flattery will get you everywhere. He smiles and turns up A-8 off. I kind of think he was planning this from the beginning.

Bad, or terrible? Supposing I was good at poker and had continued, what should I have done? Call, right? If so, how am I handling things OTF?
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04-22-2019 , 12:46 AM
IMO fold is fine, take a note and move on with your life. It sucks to get put in a spot when you make a good fold and get shown napkins but people who can't be bluffed are called fish. Also good job on getting him to show.

EDIT

A different kind of game, you call and call down on boards without A or K, consider raising if you bink.
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04-22-2019 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
4 Bet bluff experiment part 2. The professor becomes the subject. 1/2 $700 eff.

I straddle button for $5. SB makes a small raise to $12. He is one of the better 1/2 players I've come across. A local rec, with good card sense who is not a fearful player. Certainly a winning player. But solid and not spewy. We are both playing an extended session because there is a legendary spot with a big stack on my immediate right and V is on my left. I'm moderately fatigued.

I have QQ and make it $55. He thinks briefly and makes it $170. I tank. It smells fishy because of his small open, and because I have been pretty aggressive and he might think I'm up to no good.

I set about leveling myself. Nobody does this at 1/2. I won't like A or K high flops and won't be too crazy about J high. I want to remain deep against the spot. My cards and the preflop action as a whole do nothing to remove aces or kings (a couple of people had thoughtlessly called his small raise).

I veto my gut and fold.

I say "well, I'm pretty sure I just got owned," because flattery will get you everywhere. He smiles and turns up A-8 off. I kind of think he was planning this from the beginning.

Bad, or terrible? Supposing I was good at poker and had continued, what should I have done? Call, right? If so, how am I handling things OTF?
With no one else in the hand and this deep in and position, I would flat here almost always (even with AA).

ETA: Slowpony, +1 to WereBeer's post.

Gbutthat'smeG
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