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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

12-04-2018 , 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I'd probably raise slightly more preflop to setup an easier / more comfortable stack off postflop with TP.

Readless, I fold to the flop donk. If we're going to try floating and getting people off of weak pairs we really need well established reads both ways (in that he is capable of folding, and that we have a nitty image and obviously have an overpair here when we call); we have none of that so I doubt it's going to work as much as it needs to.

As played, I'd fold on the turn. He's already put in half of his stack and so my guess is that he's unlikely to fold.

Gyou'restilltryingtoohard,imoG

Well, I was going to say, If I didn't improve on the turn, I intended to bet out If villain checked, or if he bet, to raise.
But villains in my low stakes games who play like this, usually bet smaller in the flop and often repeat the same small bets on the turn, if they bet out at all. But this guy was showing valid strength, forcing me to give up.
So, thanks for reading my thoughts! This is becoming a little eary, lol.
I guess, my follow up question of, if anyone would play the hand differently is redundant now.

But, I have to disagree with you on one thing.
I do sometimes raise bigger pre flop, but it's usually influenced by the number of limpers in front. 15 is a big raise for my game.
Don't forget, this is 1/2 I'm talking about and not your 1/3 game.

Last edited by Nepeeme2008; 12-04-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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12-04-2018 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepeeme2008
I do sometimes raise bigger pre flop, but it's usually influenced by the number of limpers in front. 15 is a big raise for my game.
Don't forget, this is 1/2 I'm talking about and not your 1/3 game.
That's fair enough (and one of the reasons I don't respond to 1/2 NL threads as I'm really unsure of "reasonable" raise sizing as well as what stacks sizes are easily stacked off). This is now one of the reasons I start with a 66bb stack; it is much easier to reach my desired SPR with TP hands with a "reasonable" raise preflop (something you may want to consider).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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12-04-2018 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
That's fair enough (and one of the reasons I don't respond to 1/2 NL threads as I'm really unsure of "reasonable" raise sizing as well as what stacks sizes are easily stacked off). This is now one of the reasons I start with a 66bb stack; it is much easier to reach my desired SPR with TP hands with a "reasonable" raise preflop (something you may want to consider).

GcluelessNLnoobG
Sorry, didn't intend that as a rebuke in any way. Everyone seems to have differing opinions on pre flop bet sizes.
Pre flop raises, are in my humble opinion also very game dynamics dependent. Sometimes everyone folds to an 8 bet, sometimes you bet 20 and get 5 callers.

I very much look forward to your responses. Please don't stop!
I feel that I should soon start sending you cash for lessons!
You're very much appreciated.

I'm buying in now for 200, as opposed to the 300 I was buying in for a month or so ago.
It's helped me a lot in that I don't get tempted to play fancy anymore and makes me play all around tighter.
I've managed a modest 755 profit in 8 sessions since November but I'm still down over 1k overall
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12-04-2018 , 04:04 PM
Raise the flop donk. Very often at low stakes a donk bet is a weak one pair hand or a silly draw.

It’s free money to raise every donk bet you have, particularly when you’ve missed. I’ll generally call donk bets with my strongest hands and raise with the all the whiffs
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12-04-2018 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
Raise the flop donk. Very often at low stakes a donk bet is a weak one pair hand or a silly draw.

It’s free money to raise every donk bet you have, particularly when you’ve missed. I’ll generally call donk bets with my strongest hands and raise with the all the whiffs
I very much agree with this and was hoping/ expecting someone to say it.
Because the thought crossed my mind but I was afraid of sounding like a fish..again. GG also touched on this.
But I don't think it applies in this particular instance, that's why I decided against it, and here's the reason why.

It's a favorite move among many player's in ls nl games, for whatever reasons, I don't want to go too much into their minds, it's a scary place
But usually, they'll have easy to read, exploitable sizing tells.
For instance, Villain would have normally bet either 10 or at most 15 on the flop, and the same bet, if at all on the turn.
This guy bet strong, 25, giving me pause and causing me to just call and reassess on the Turn. Then he showed even more strength when he bet 50.
I'm still not good enough to know what exactly was going on but I think a fold was definitely the right play in this instance.
Another problem I had was, if I called, or raised, I couldn't even best AK
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12-04-2018 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepeeme2008
I very much agree with this and was hoping/ expecting someone to say it.
Because the thought crossed my mind but I was afraid of sounding like a fish.:
Stop caring about what others think. Post your thoughts. It will help you learn. If you post something stupid. It would likely really help more than holding thongs in.

Everybody thinks I am an ass. (Only thing many are right about). But I don't care. I keep posting.
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12-04-2018 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Stop caring about what others think. Post your thoughts. It will help you learn. If you post something stupid. It would likely really help more than holding thongs in.

Everybody thinks I am an ass. (Only thing many are right about). But I don't care. I keep posting.
I like you
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12-04-2018 , 07:13 PM
1/3 UTG straddle by 30WM rec tourist. Guy is having fun, but basically knows how to play poker and certainly cares about winning. Likely plays 5-10 times per year, or has a home game or something.

A little less than $200 eff.

Hero can't resist and raises to $18 with Kd9D from MP.

Only V calls.

Flop 956R. V checks.

Hero bets $25.

Turn 7 brings FD. V checks. Hero bets $35, planning to check back most rivers.

River 8R. The board is a 56789 straight with no flush.

Hero shoves for a little over $100.
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12-04-2018 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
1/3 UTG straddle by 30WM rec tourist. Guy is having fun, but basically knows how to play poker and certainly cares about winning. Likely plays 5-10 times per year, or has a home game or something.

A little less than $200 eff.

Hero can't resist and raises to $18 with Kd9D from MP.

Only V calls.

Flop 956R. V checks.

Hero bets $25.

Turn 7 brings FD. V checks. Hero bets $35, planning to check back most rivers.

River 8R. The board is a 56789 straight with no flush.

Hero shoves for a little over $100.
wait your turn.

and I bet more on the turn.

river is fun.
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12-04-2018 , 07:52 PM
Don't 6x it from MP with K9. You said you can't resist but is there something preventing you from sizing your raise smaller?

I'm not sure what you are betting the turn for. is this for value or as a bluff? Do you have a flush draw or another flush draw is out there?
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12-04-2018 , 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Don't 6x it from MP with K9. You said you can't resist but is there something preventing you from sizing your raise smaller?

I'm not sure what you are betting the turn for. is this for value or as a bluff? Do you have a flush draw or another flush draw is out there?
He straddled. I probably push things a bit attacking dead money (no straddle I fold pre), but it was 3x his straddle. The fact that he was utg and a rec played a role.

Turn is for value and to set up a river check back. Granted, the board is a mess. But I thought there were enough worse hands and draws tangled up in that mess. Some of which would fold equity. Many of which would no longer pay me on the river if it goes check check on the turn.

I did not pick up a FD.

I also thought I'm kind of naming my price for the remainder of hand. For example, I think that 2 pair probably calls and checks to me on the river and I'll often check back and that this is a pretty good result for my hand vs. 2 pair. But if it goes check/check turn and he leads the river it's often going to be a tricky spot.

Even if I improve. Like say the turn is check/check and the river is a K and he bets. Sort of a tough spot. I'd just rather be in control and choose between bet/fold and check back on most rivers.
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12-04-2018 , 08:25 PM
I suck at reading. Preflop sizing is fine. Turn I initially thought u had a flush draw which makes betting worse because we can easily get blown off our equity by hands that will pay us the vast majority of the time when we bink.
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12-04-2018 , 08:28 PM
In fairness, I also suck at writing. It does look like I'm saying I have the FD.
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12-05-2018 , 06:28 AM
2/5 live $800 effective.

Good tag pro opens $25 UTG, decent nit/tag calls MP, hero calls HJ AQss with three whales behind him, whale calls button and another calls sb.

Pot:$125.

Flop: Qh8s5s.

Tag pro $75, fold, H?
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12-05-2018 , 08:28 AM
TPTK + NFD is a very particular, idiosyncratic kind of hand. You definitely want to be flatting here. One reason is that you don't mind more callers, as your hand is extremely strong against weak ranges. The other is that (given your hand, so that he can't really have strong FDs) his leading range into 4 opponents bottoms out at KQ. So if you raise now, he will correctly reason that KQ, being the bottom of his range, should be folded. And you really don't want KQ or AQ folding, you need to string them along for more money. They're drawing so dead against you, any small amount you can extract is worth any number of free cards.
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12-05-2018 , 08:35 AM
Consider a 3bet pre. I understand it's an UTG open but a TAG pro should be wider than your standard TT+AK abc opening range.

Also makes it harder to play against you. If you're not 3-betting this than your 3-bet range is way too snug for 2/5.
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12-05-2018 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
1/3 UTG straddle by 30WM rec tourist. Guy is having fun, but basically knows how to play poker and certainly cares about winning. Likely plays 5-10 times per year, or has a home game or something.

A little less than $200 eff.

Hero can't resist and raises to $18 with Kd9D from MP.

Only V calls.

Flop 956R. V checks.

Hero bets $25.

Turn 7 brings FD. V checks. Hero bets $35, planning to check back most rivers.

River 8R. The board is a 56789 straight with no flush.

Hero shoves for a little over $100.
Easy fold for me preflop (way too early / shortstacked @ 33bb to be getting out-of-line), but you somehow got it HU in position, so nice result.

I'm either/or on the flop. Against ABC guys I'm cool with a bet and evaluate the turn. Against non-ABC guys I'm cool with risking scare cards and checking back just to make sure I get to showdown.

Is it our flush draw that the turn brings? If so, super easy check back for me as I'd hate to be blown off it. Even without the flush draw I'm kinda cool with still just getting to showdown / bluffcatching against guys who could bluff a checkback on this turn.

I suppose the river shove is to simply freeroll the pot as it's unlikely he has a bigger straight and checked it? I'm fine with that.

Overall, after the turn we left ourselves with just a < 3/4 PSB left and have an incredibly mediocre hand, which suggests to me that we've done something wrong, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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12-05-2018 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
2/5 live $800 effective.

Good tag pro opens $25 UTG, decent nit/tag calls MP, hero calls HJ AQss with three whales behind him, whale calls button and another calls sb.

Pot:$125.

Flop: Qh8s5s.

Tag pro $75, fold, H?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
TPTK + NFD is a very particular, idiosyncratic kind of hand. You definitely want to be flatting here. One reason is that you don't mind more callers, as your hand is extremely strong against weak ranges. The other is that (given your hand, so that he can't really have strong FDs) his leading range into 4 opponents bottoms out at KQ. So if you raise now, he will correctly reason that KQ, being the bottom of his range, should be folded. And you really don't want KQ or AQ folding, you need to string them along for more money. They're drawing so dead against you, any small amount you can extract is worth any number of free cards.
Very definitely this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Consider a 3bet pre. I understand it's an UTG open but a TAG pro should be wider than your standard TT+AK abc opening range.

Also makes it harder to play against you. If you're not 3-betting this than your 3-bet range is way too snug for 2/5.
Very definitely not this.
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12-05-2018 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
2/5 live $800 effective.

Good tag pro opens $25 UTG, decent nit/tag calls MP, hero calls HJ AQss with three whales behind him, whale calls button and another calls sb.

Pot:$125.

Flop: Qh8s5s.

Tag pro $75, fold, H?
Raising also risks us getting blown off our equity in case he correctly puts you on fd/combo draw and 3! otf. Also, if whale has dominated flush draw or Q you want them in. I'd call.
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12-05-2018 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
Very definitely this.



Very definitely not this.
Why not 3 bet. AQs is standard 3bet vs pro UTG.
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12-05-2018 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Why not 3 bet. AQs is standard 3bet vs pro UTG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
Good tag pro opens $25 UTG, decent nit/tag calls MP, hero calls HJ AQss with three whales behind him, whale calls button and another calls sb.
This is not even close. It's crazy to reject playing a hand with a big suited ace in position against several bad players in favor of a thin-as-hell threebet against a pro who is probably not kidding around when UTG raising in a game like this.
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12-05-2018 , 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk
Raising also risks us getting blown off our equity in case he correctly puts you on fd/combo draw and 3! otf.
Never getting blown off my equity here in a million years.
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12-05-2018 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
This is not even close. It's crazy to reject playing a hand with a big suited ace in position against several bad players in favor of a thin-as-hell threebet against a pro who is probably not kidding around when UTG raising in a game like this.
Ya, agree. Didn't put much thought into it.
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12-05-2018 , 08:03 PM
AQs isn't a thin 3 bet vs a pro. Especially since he is likely wider than normal trying to get into pots with whales.
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12-05-2018 , 08:16 PM
If there weren’t 3 whales behind me I have a frequency at which I’ll 3 bet this hand, I actually randomize against the pros I play with lol. With the three whales behind me I feel like it should just be a flat.

Agree with call being slightly better than raise. I chose to raise but when I was thinking about it after I thought flatting was the play and wanted to see what you guys thought.

Dumbo, we can’t get blown off our equity. Against a get it in range of AQ, Kk/AA/88/55 we have 48% equity.
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