Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions - Page 222 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

How many players in your games are 3! light? What kind of range are they 3 betting? How do they react when they get 3bet? IME this info will help you build 3 and 4-bet value and bluff ranges.

As you've pointed out, a lot depends on stack depth. 100bb cap games just don't offer the maneuverability to 4b light. OTOH, even if our 4b range is super face-up, most opponents should be calling down with a similarly strong (but hopefully weaker) range.

If you have a read on an opponent or stack depth dictates flatting a 3b with AA/KK is ideal, go with it - like if an opponent can be super light and willing to stuff it drawing dead or if stacks are super shallow and you're never folding anyway.

Based on what I've seen from the general population at 5/5 here, 3b range seems to be TT+, AQ+, AJs. I've been in a couple spots recently where I 4b pre AA and they are laying down JJ/QQ, even after 3b'ing 1/3rd of their stack pre, which I why I made this post. I think flatting and GII on most flops with an SPR of 1 might get them to stack off more readily, esp if the flop comes all undercards?

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05-28-2018 , 04:32 PM

#5527

BreakEvenAt1-3

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 304

TT in SB facing tight UTG+1 4x open to 20, tight Asian player to his left 3-bets to 55, folds around to me. Is it spew to call with unknown UTG1 still to act? Effective stacks around 450.

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05-28-2018 , 04:51 PM

#5528

Calldown88

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 500

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3

Maybe better to just 4 bet a lot lighter while still not doing it often enough for them to just think you're full of it, while continuing to 4 bet AA.

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05-28-2018 , 08:44 PM

#5529

Nozsr

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

I see your point about the lack of specificity but terms like "OMC" are also demeaning. I don't think it's a problem, it's not like we're saying it to their faces. It's not a term I use myself (because it's non-specific, as you point out) but when others use it I just treat it as shorthand for "losing player".

I are one.

Not offended.

Makes it easier to semi-bluff or steal if Villains think it, feel it, or say it.

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06-04-2018 , 11:48 AM

#5530

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 13,010

Here is one I played the other night

1/2 about 4 am on the strip

Three limpers and I make it $18 with red kings. All three limpers call. $300 effective.

Flop Qc 9c 2h

UTG donks $30. One caller and then older guy makes it $100.

On you.

No real reads here. UTG was young and had been drinking but not wildly drunk. Just sat down in past 20 minutes. Raiser was in his 50s and hadn’t done anything we could really make a judgment on. Also only been at the table for 20 minutes or so.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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06-04-2018 , 12:47 PM

#5531

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

Jam, and I don't think it's particularly close.

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06-04-2018 , 02:10 PM

#5532

Phil Me Up

adept

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 808

Tempted to fold, but would probably just GII most times begrudgingly.

Range him something like AJ/AQ, Q9s, 22/99. Maybe a few OESFD. It's thin, but low SPR makes it easier to commit.

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06-04-2018 , 02:41 PM

#5533

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

always jamming

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06-04-2018 , 03:10 PM

#5534

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,595

Older guy's rock bottom of his range to this action is AQ/KQ, right? Does he raise those hands preflop? If so, we should probably fold, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

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06-04-2018 , 07:40 PM

#5535

Shai Hulud

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,919

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbledygeek

Older guy's rock bottom of his range to this action is AQ/KQ, right? Does he raise those hands preflop? If so, we should probably fold, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

He's in his 50s not 90. Also it's 4AM. Middle-aged guys are capable of playing a wide variety of styles. So are 90-year olds, you just happen to see one style 95/100 times...

Though the question of whether he raises AQ/KQ is important. A lot of people do limp these kinds of hands. If we think this guy normally raises them then I lean toward a fold as he has few made hands we beat.

I'm shoving as described. Too many draws and we block JT's outs.

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06-04-2018 , 11:03 PM

#5536

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

This is more or less entirely a question that revolves around how much AQ he has. The more passive he's been, especially preflop, the more likely I am to get it in. I doubt he's aggressive enough to x/r with just JT OTF. There are various strong club draws he could have but it's not really enough combos to move the needle, you want him to have value hands you beat, meaning AQ basically.

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06-06-2018 , 02:14 AM

#5537

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 13,010

I pretty much snap folded.

Two players behind me who have put
Money in and can repop it. One pair can’t be good.

UTG rips it in and gets snapped off.

UTG has AA.

Other player flopped top two pair.

Turn Q.

River A.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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06-06-2018 , 02:31 AM

#5538

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 31,038

2/5 (500). 6 way limped pot I’m in sb with K9cc and complete.

Flop is 992 ss.

I lead 30 and old Asian guy with weird swollen hand and the shakes calls. He is either drunk or a little weird...he disappeared for 3 orbits and he appeared to get lost in the poker room before we brought him back to the table. He's chipped up from 400 to 700 with some nutted hands in the past hour. I cover

Turn is 10c, I bet 70, Asian guy raises to 250 with 450 behind. I call.

River is the last 9 - bet or check? if bet, how much

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06-06-2018 , 02:56 AM

#5539

homerdash

banned

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,062

bout $350

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06-06-2018 , 03:31 AM

#5540

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Check. If he has a T, which is not that likely anyway, he'll probably bet it himself if you check. If he has exactly 22 you want to be betting but he's probably not going to call. If he has anything else you want to be checking.

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06-06-2018 , 11:19 AM

#5541

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,595

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k

Yeah, unless I'm misreading the situation, "snap fold" also comes to mind too. I didn't necessarily expect to be behind the first two guys, but in general this is an extremely strong move by the older guy and I just think it's rarely a semi-bluff given how many people are interested in the hand and the great odds he's getting (most people just call their big draws in this spot, imo) and rarely an overplay of big Qx (if he can even have that here due to preflop). Nice fold, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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06-09-2018 , 11:59 PM

#5542

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,682

Assume everyone has $300 to start the hand.

Whale opens the CO to $12, I 3 bet AQo otb to 35, two somewhat nitty players in the blinds cold call... and the whale calls.

Pot: $140.

Flop: KK4r.

Checks to hero. Cbet or give up?

It’s nice to block AK and KQ but they should still have a good amount of Kx and pairs that might hold on.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 06-10-2018 at 12:10 AM.

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06-10-2018 , 12:21 AM

#5543

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k

Depends what position the middle age guy was in. If he was in a later position and likely doesn’t have much AQ I would fold.

I’m probably usually folding in this spot, but I’m often calling, it’s very live reads dependent. Not like if the guy itches his ear etc, I just mean how he’s played his other hands and his overall style/demeanor.

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06-10-2018 , 02:30 AM

#5544

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badreg2017

It's close but probably worth a cbet because you can credibly cbet small. Something like 60 is probably worthwhile.

Quote

06-10-2018 , 03:35 AM

#5545

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 31,038

Ok,WWYD?

Eff stacks 2.1k at 2/5/10. I bet 35 utg with KK, Tightish reg pro who isn’t great, utg +1 raises to 110. Folds to button who flats. Button is familiarish young Asian with headphones who has played a good aggro game.

I 4 bet to 425, Reg/pro folds and Asian tank flats.

Flop is A24r check check

Turn is 5r, I bet 310 and he calls.

River is 6.

Check/check? Check/call? Bet/fold? Bet/call? Shove?

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06-10-2018 , 05:41 AM

#5546

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

Tough. I lean x/c. We should be ahead plenty here, but it's a bad spot for him to turn his hand into a bluff. But does he know that? I say no and I x/c.

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06-10-2018 , 10:50 AM

#5547

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,940

^ This exactly.

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06-10-2018 , 11:43 AM

#5548

Me2theEV

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 848

Why not b/f?

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06-10-2018 , 11:53 AM

#5549

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me2theEV

Why not b/f?

Hard to get value imo.

Quote

06-10-2018 , 12:33 PM

#5550

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,940

Yeah, against an average rec player I'd b/f, but against a headphone-wearing Asian, I think we'd have a hard time getting value and would have a chance of getting bluff raised.

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