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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

10-25-2015 , 02:09 AM
Unless I see a guy overvalue a hand I just assume most people are going to get passive.

I understand what you mean though, its a strange type of villain who will not 3b AKs pre but will raise flops
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10-25-2015 , 02:56 AM
Yeah, I just mean we've all seen random Dad looking guy buy in for $150.
Call our $15 AK raise with 10s.

K,6,7r

Bet $30, call

3

Bet $65, "I'll just go all in..."
And you're like "$40 more? Ugh Call..."

And the guy shows 10s or K10/KJ, and he's just going with it because he haz pair, and plays a weekly $10 home tournament
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10-25-2015 , 06:17 AM
AK is a drawing hand, why raise pre ldo
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10-25-2015 , 07:50 AM
Is villain really the kind of guy you should expect to call the flop with a weak hand? Maybe you need to check this sort of flop more often.
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10-25-2015 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis_Costello
I find myself in these spots somewhat regularly.
Just unavoidable, or?

$7 straddle on the button, 2 people limp.
KQ and I make it $35

Villain - Wearing khakis and dress shirt, bought in for $300 max and hasn't really played a hand to the river. He's limped called a few $10-$15 bets and check folded.

Straddler defends as well.

K55 ($120)

I lead $50 looking for a call somehow, guy peeling with pairs, AQ, etc.
Villain min-raises to $100.

This isn't good, but he never has a 5. Call

8

I check, he bets $100. I call reluctantly.

2

I check, he checks behind and tables AK

These are the spots where I'm just assuming that AK-KK-AA-QQ are re-raises my $35 Pre, but they seldom do.
And I just bet/call myself to death.

Should I just be folding to the min-raise?
Calling the min, and check-folding turn?
No real reads aside from assumption of nit. But we've all seen this guy could have KJ and think it's the nuts. Have JJ/10s and be like "I have a pair... I'm never folding"
I'd be folding to this min-raise, and super folding to the turn bet. You really think he takes this line with KJ? No way. If he over values hands, he may call down way too light, but it takes a very rare player to drive the action with worse here.
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10-25-2015 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis_Costello
I find myself in these spots somewhat regularly.
Just unavoidable, or?

$7 straddle on the button, 2 people limp.
KNot Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions:QNot Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions: and I make it $35

Villain - Wearing khakis and dress shirt, bought in for $300 max and hasn't really played a hand to the river. He's limped called a few $10-$15 bets and check folded.

Straddler defends as well.

KNot Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions:5Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions:5Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions ($120)

I lead $50 looking for a call somehow, guy peeling with pairs, AQ, etc.
Villain min-raises to $100.

This isn't good, but he never has a 5. Call

8Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions:

I check, he bets $100. I call reluctantly.

2Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions:

I check, he checks behind and tables ANot Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat QuestionsKNot Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

These are the spots where I'm just assuming that AK-KK-AA-QQ are re-raises my $35 Pre, but they seldom do.
And I just bet/call myself to death.

Should I just be folding to the min-raise?
Calling the min, and check-folding turn?
No real reads aside from assumption of nit. But we've all seen this guy could have KJ and think it's the nuts. Have JJ/10s and be like "I have a pair... I'm never folding"
What blinds structure is this where you are straddling for 7?

You didn't say where you are, and if villain was one of the limpers, but pre I may exploitatively raise smaller depending on table dynamics.

I really like your flop bet & sizing. Rest of hand is wp, just a cooler.

Edit: just noticed that he only has about 65 left after betting the turn? Think i may either put him in, or fold, it's not like i'm folding for 65 more on the river.

Last edited by Snowball2; 10-25-2015 at 04:40 PM.
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10-25-2015 , 04:59 PM
Quote:
Villain - Wearing khakis and dress shirt, bought in for $300 max and hasn't really played a hand to the river. He's limped called a few $10-$15 bets and check folded.
Quote:
Villain min-raises
Fold. AK is the bottom of his range there. I know it sounds really nitty, but ABC and/or LP V's call paired boards with pairs between the paired and unpaired cards and occasional FDs (not on this baord, ldo). When they raise it's TPTK, trips, and boats pretty much only.

Against a less ABC looking/LP history V, I could call looking for a cheap showdown as there would be some chops and a few worse Ks in their range. Even against them, though, I'm folding to the committing bet OTT.
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10-25-2015 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis_Costello
I find myself in these spots somewhat regularly.
Just unavoidable, or?

$7 straddle on the button, 2 people limp.
KQ and I make it $35

Villain - Wearing khakis and dress shirt, bought in for $300 max and hasn't really played a hand to the river. He's limped called a few $10-$15 bets and check folded.

Straddler defends as well.

K55 ($120)

I lead $50 looking for a call somehow, guy peeling with pairs, AQ, etc.
Villain min-raises to $100.

This isn't good, but he never has a 5. Call

8

I check, he bets $100. I call reluctantly.

2

I check, he checks behind and tables AK

These are the spots where I'm just assuming that AK-KK-AA-QQ are re-raises my $35 Pre, but they seldom do.
And I just bet/call myself to death.

Should I just be folding to the min-raise?
Calling the min, and check-folding turn?
No real reads aside from assumption of nit. But we've all seen this guy could have KJ and think it's the nuts. Have JJ/10s and be like "I have a pair... I'm never folding"
I just make a nitty fold OTF or turn against unknown. I assume you were folding to a decent river bet?
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10-25-2015 , 05:30 PM
$2/5. Competition are mediocre slightly losing players. Hero covers, stacks vary from $300-$600.

Hero has a tight image.

3 limpets hero raises AQ OTB to $35, Sb and 2 limpets call.

($135) flop:AK9

Checked to hero. Sizing?
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10-25-2015 , 05:59 PM
55, no need to go bigger on such a dry board. 55 - 95 - allin
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10-25-2015 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
$2/5. Competition are mediocre slightly losing players. Hero covers, stacks vary from $300-$600.

Hero has a tight image.

3 limpets hero raises AQ OTB to $35, Sb and 2 limpets call.

($135) flop:AK9

Checked to hero. Sizing?
Biggest effective stack divided by 6 otf. 2x turn, 4x river
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10-26-2015 , 12:38 PM
Hand 1:

1/3

UTG straddles to $6, 4 active players limp (they all have junk if they are just limping), I have AJo in the SB.

I raise to $32.

Straddler is $250 effective, tanks and flats. One of the fish limpers flats.

Straddler hasn't gotten out-of-line all day and has been very quiet. In the past 4 hours he's seen me nit it up thanks to being card dead and only play one a single hand of any note postflop, where in a multiway straddled pot I check/shoved a flushdraw+gutshot+overcard against a shortstack flop donker HU and get there.

J64hh flop. SPR is slightly less than 2 (~$115 pot with ~$220 left) . Fish in the hand will chase any draw.

Thoughts on preflop?

Is postflop anything other than bet flop to shove turn and never folding?

GcluelessNLnoobG
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10-26-2015 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Hand 1:

1/3

UTG straddles to $6, 4 active players limp (they all have junk if they are just limping), I have AJo in the SB.

I raise to $32.

Straddler is $250 effective, tanks and flats. One of the fish limpers flats.

Straddler hasn't gotten out-of-line all day and has been very quiet. In the past 4 hours he's seen me nit it up thanks to being card dead and only play one a single hand of any note postflop, where in a multiway straddled pot I check/shoved a flushdraw+gutshot+overcard against a shortstack flop donker HU and get there.

J64hh flop. SPR is slightly less than 2 (~$115 pot with ~$220 left) . Fish in the hand will chase any draw.

Thoughts on preflop?

Is postflop anything other than bet flop to shove turn and never folding?

GcluelessNLnoobG
I think pre is a bit small.

But yeah bet flop-shove turn
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10-26-2015 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Hand 1:

1/3

UTG straddles to $6, 4 active players limp (they all have junk if they are just limping), I have AJo in the SB.

I raise to $32.

Straddler is $250 effective, tanks and flats. One of the fish limpers flats.

Straddler hasn't gotten out-of-line all day and has been very quiet. In the past 4 hours he's seen me nit it up thanks to being card dead and only play one a single hand of any note postflop, where in a multiway straddled pot I check/shoved a flushdraw+gutshot+overcard against a shortstack flop donker HU and get there.

J64hh flop. SPR is slightly less than 2 (~$115 pot with ~$220 left) . Fish in the hand will chase any draw.

Thoughts on preflop?

Is postflop anything other than bet flop to shove turn and never folding?

GcluelessNLnoobG
Did you expect two callers? I don't raise AJ from the blinds and I'm wondering if I'm missing value there. It's so hard to play oop especially when you miss. Are you cbetting all good flops then shutting down? Are you c/fing when you miss? What's your plan for the hand? I struggle alot in these spots

Sent from my SM-G920V using 2+2 Forums
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10-26-2015 , 12:49 PM
Hand 2:

An idiot UTG limps and Villain raises in his first orbit UTG+3 to $20. Pretty sure I've played with this guy before and from what I recall he's not an idiot.

I have JJ and we're only $230 deep. I flat. Meh?

Limper flats.

$60 pot, A83r, checks to Hero who $20. Is this even a good bet? I *might* be ahead and a little vulnerable if Villain is getting creative preflop, and it's *possible* I might even get better/tied hands to fold. Can I actually check behind? Meh?

Villain calls. J turn bringing 2-to-a-flush. Villain donks $40 into $100. Looks like it possibly might be a blocking bet (one that perhaps he might fold to a raise), perhaps a weird bluff or semi-bluff? We'll only have $150 left in a $180 pot in position for the river (so stacks can still easily be played for), although I do risk a scare card. I flat. Meh?

River 2 bringing in the flush draw. Villain bets $50 into $180 leaving $100 behind. I shove, thinking that many worse hands are still going to have a hard time folding. Meh?

Gmeh?G
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10-26-2015 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
Did you expect two callers? I don't raise AJ from the blinds and I'm wondering if I'm missing value there. It's so hard to play oop especially when you miss. Are you cbetting all good flops then shutting down? Are you c/fing when you miss? What's your plan for the hand? I struggle alot in these spots

Sent from my SM-G920V using 2+2 Forums
Did not expect 2 callers. I've got a nit image thanks to my card deadness, and the active players have been raising a lot of hands, so I really think they've all got crap (they're not trapping with monsters). I thought at worse I get it HU and my image will take down the flop with a cbet. A couple of the stacks I'm < $300 with, so I think I'm ok with stacking off with TP (???). A couple of the other stacks I'm $550 with, but felt like I wasn't going to get played back with.

I also usually don't raise AJo out-of-the-blinds, but felt my combination of image / stacks and unlikelihood of getting played back at made it ok? But absolutely debatable, imo.

The straddler calling thru me for a loop. My plan against him alone would have been to cbet for small if whiffing and then easily giving up. But does that plan have to change when hitting TPTK in SPR ~2?

GcluelesspreflopnoobG
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10-26-2015 , 01:02 PM
Hand 1 pot is $46, I like to go close to that to avoid the chain of callers. Taking it down is a fine and likely result. Easy pot commitment post, if qq, NH.
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10-26-2015 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours
Hand 1 pot is $46, I like to go close to that to avoid the chain of callers. Taking it down is a fine and likely result. Easy pot commitment post, if qq, NH.
Spoiler:

I was worried my post was going to be too results transparent; looks like you saw right thru it.

At the time I considered it a cooler, but I'm not convinced of anything any more and I'm double checking.
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10-26-2015 , 01:21 PM
Hand 2 y u no raise turn?????
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10-26-2015 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
Most of your money from LLSNL should come getting the most value out of your winning hands. You should still be c-betting good textures HU/3-way and sometimes setting up double barrels against people that peel flop wide, but if you didn't, I'd think you'd still be quite profitable in most 2/5 games

Will DB here apply??

playing 1/2 here, 115bb eff, villain seems like a recreational player, don't have much reads on him yet.

Hero opens 99 to 3bb from EP, villain calls from MP, all else folds

Flop (7.5bb): J65
Hero cbet 6bb, villain calls.

Turn (19.5bb): 7 hero?
7 doesn't hit hero's perceived PFR range, if we DB here we're mostly repping over pairs, Jx (AJ/KJ), and 99-TT i choose to DB, or air?

I don't think we can fold out a J on the turn since no over cards came, so let's assume we bet the turn (12ish bb), villain calls, and the river is a A or a K, can we ship as a bluff or are we committing villain too much (river will have 44bb) by the time the river comes?

OR

Can we c/c and lead river if an 8 or a 9 comes? Obv depending on villain bet size on the turn. Thoughts? These have been tougher spots lately being OOP, we c-bet, villain calls, and now we're on the turn with about 100bb eff stacks.
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10-26-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours
Hand 2 y u no raise turn?????
I though it was more a blocking bet/fold, and I knew chips could easily go in on the river in position (with << PSB left). The *only* drawback as far as I could tell is that I risked a scare card (although I doubt he puts me on a backdoor flush), although if he's the one on the draw (such as KQcc) I certainly missed charging him.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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10-26-2015 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balerion1
villain seems like a recreational player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balerion1
7 doesn't hit hero's perceived PFR range, if we DB here we're mostly repping over pairs, Jx (AJ/KJ), and 99-TT i choose to DB, or air?
These are two somewhat opposed thoughts/reads, the idea that your opponent is a rec and that you're "representing" a certain range with your actions may not quite come through.

In your 99 hand, the range you're trying to set up to barrel bluff off against (Jx, TT) is a rather narrow part of villain's overall range (pkt pairs, 87, 6x, 5x, random weak peels) and it's difficult to make work too since you won't get many good river barreling cards. I'd much rather check/decide in your spot with the 99 since we still have pretty good showdown value. If he makes a serious bet (10bb+) we should usually fold turn, if he checks back we can bet some rivers, if he bets small we call once and evaluate river.
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10-26-2015 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
These are two somewhat opposed thoughts/reads, the idea that your opponent is a rec and that you're "representing" a certain range with your actions may not quite come through.

w/o further reads on this guy you might be right about representing certain range. What I meant was, let's say villain had QJ in this spot, the only cards villain will really give notice is a K or and A because there is an over card now. So if the turn was an A or K is this not a card we should try to rep larger portion of the time?

In your 99 hand, the range you're trying to set up to barrel bluff off against (Jx, TT) is a rather narrow part of villain's overall range (pkt pairs, 87, 6x, 5x, random weak peels) and it's difficult to make work too since you won't get many good river barreling cards. I'd much rather check/decide in your spot with the 99 since we still have pretty good showdown value. If he makes a serious bet (10bb+) we should usually fold turn, if he checks back we can bet some rivers, if he bets small we call once and evaluate river.
Villain's overall range is def wider than what I said in my original post. How wide is the question... I don't have an answer to. AP I did check, villin bet 10bb, hero called. What does 10bb bet say about villain's betting range on the turn?
See above
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10-26-2015 , 03:11 PM
Oh you asked about firing off on the river in the original post I thought. If the turn is an A/K I will usually barrel it pretty often because we win the pot so much more often than we do when we check.

As for 10bb bet size, I generally think that your average or below average players bet the value of their hand in such a way that betting much more than that in this HU pot means real strength and we should usually fold to it other reads not withstanding. It's pretty arbitrary
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10-26-2015 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
Oh you asked about firing off on the river in the original post I thought. If the turn is an A/K I will usually barrel it pretty often because we win the pot so much more often than we do when we check.

As for 10bb bet size, I generally think that your average or below average players bet the value of their hand in such a way that betting much more than that in this HU pot means real strength and we should usually fold to it other reads not withstanding. It's pretty arbitrary
So is c/c 'ok' in this spot as long as we lead river when we hit? or is c/c a leak given we're only drawing to 8 possible outs, and villain may/may not call a river bet that we need extract since we're only getting 3:1 on the turn.
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