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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

09-09-2018 , 07:17 PM
Played with V a couple of weeks ago for a few hours, I’ve seen him make some big bluffs but I don’t remember much, I doubt he remembers me. Today I’m new to the table and have lost a couple of small pots in the first 20 min, nothing significant.

1/3 live

H$400 CO
V covers BB

H raises AdAs to $15, V calls.

Pot:$26.

Flop: Jc2d5d

H $20, V calls.

Pot:$64

Turn Kc

H $40, V calls.

Pot: $144

River: 9d.

V donks $110 H?

All 3 options seem reasonable but bluff shoving with SDV and at this stack depth seems somewhat dicey.

Would black aces make for a better call? Ad blocks value but it blocks the more sensible bluffs. If I bet and he raised I would rather have Ad but his value range is wider than just nut flushes when it’s just a river bet.
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09-09-2018 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Are you assuming you always lose if he calls? If so, the calculation is easy. You're risking $4 to return $14 ($10 in the pot plus getting your $4 back). $4 is 28.57% of $14, so as long as V folds more than that often, your play is +EV.

In the real world, it's much more complicated than that, because when he calls, you have equity, IOs and reverse IOs. Still, that gives you the basic idea. The "bluffing formula" is Break-Even% = Amount you're Risking divided by Amount of Return (pot+your bet). Note that this is exactly the same as the "calling formula" if you are considering a call OTR. It is usually called the Break-Even Formula.
Great, thanks. I was indeed assuming that I lose if called. Trying to get a rough idea/estimate of how often a stab at the pot needs to work in order to be profitable/breakeven.
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09-10-2018 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
Played with V a couple of weeks ago for a few hours, I’ve seen him make some big bluffs but I don’t remember much, I doubt he remembers me. Today I’m new to the table and have lost a couple of small pots in the first 20 min, nothing significant.

1/3 live

H$400 CO
V covers BB

H raises AdAs to $15, V calls.

Pot:$26.

Flop: Jc2d5d

H $20, V calls.

Pot:$64

Turn Kc

H $40, V calls.

Pot: $144

River: 9d.

V donks $110 H?

All 3 options seem reasonable but bluff shoving with SDV and at this stack depth seems somewhat dicey.

Would black aces make for a better call? Ad blocks value but it blocks the more sensible bluffs. If I bet and he raised I would rather have Ad but his value range is wider than just nut flushes when it’s just a river bet.
Fold.

MDF is 57%. I'm counting 64 combos of a reasonable CO open range that fire on the flop and turn, so we want to call with the best 36 of them to be unexploitable. That means calling with your flushes, straights, sets, and half your two-pair hands. AA doesn't make the cut, so fold.

ETA: If you are going to bluff-raise, though, AA is the perfect candidate, falling just below the bottom of your calling range. Holding the Ad is good, because it blocks the villain's better flush combos.

Last edited by AlanBostick; 09-10-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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09-10-2018 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
Played with V a couple of weeks ago for a few hours, I’ve seen him make some big bluffs but I don’t remember much, I doubt he remembers me. Today I’m new to the table and have lost a couple of small pots in the first 20 min, nothing significant.

1/3 live

H$400 CO
V covers BB

H raises AdAs to $15, V calls.

Pot:$26.

Flop: Jc2d5d

H $20, V calls.

Pot:$64

Turn Kc

H $40, V calls.

Pot: $144

River: 9d.

V donks $110 H?

All 3 options seem reasonable but bluff shoving with SDV and at this stack depth seems somewhat dicey.

Would black aces make for a better call? Ad blocks value but it blocks the more sensible bluffs. If I bet and he raised I would rather have Ad but his value range is wider than just nut flushes when it’s just a river bet.
I think AA has far too much showdown value to be turned into a bluff raise here, so I'd never consider that, imo. For me it's between calling and folding. With bets this big (not a blocking bet trying to showdown for cheap with a mediocre hand) it comes down to how often this guy bluffs / what types of hands he bluffs with (would he bet Jx like this or just showdown or perhaps blocking bet it?) and how many draws busted (not too many draws busted on this flop, like just 43, and even running QT got there). I probably lean to a fold, especially given how hard we played the hand (i.e. he's not really expecting us to fold given the strength we've shown thru out).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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09-11-2018 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
Played with V a couple of weeks ago for a few hours, I’ve seen him make some big bluffs but I don’t remember much, I doubt he remembers me. Today I’m new to the table and have lost a couple of small pots in the first 20 min, nothing significant.

1/3 live

H$400 CO
V covers BB

H raises AdAs to $15, V calls.

Pot:$26.

Flop: Jc2d5d

H $20, V calls.

Pot:$64

Turn Kc

H $40, V calls.

Pot: $144

River: 9d.

V donks $110 H?

All 3 options seem reasonable but bluff shoving with SDV and at this stack depth seems somewhat dicey.

Would black aces make for a better call? Ad blocks value but it blocks the more sensible bluffs. If I bet and he raised I would rather have Ad but his value range is wider than just nut flushes when it’s just a river bet.
Feels like a fold to me. Is he floating two streets with air just to bluff the river? Probably not. Is he turning a pair of jacks into a bluff? Probably not. There are so many hands that beat you here... he's not just repping a flush (he could totally play a set this way).

He knows you're checking back lots of one-pair hands, so he needs to get value from his sets and flushes.
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09-11-2018 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaYu
Feels like a fold to me. Is he floating two streets with air just to bluff the river? Probably not. Is he turning a pair of jacks into a bluff? Probably not. There are so many hands that beat you here... he's not just repping a flush (he could totally play a set this way).

He knows you're checking back lots of one-pair hands, so he needs to get value from his sets and flushes.
Don't buy this. I think he would size down a bit with things like sets and I also think he fairly obviously checkraises all his sets (+ top two) OTT here.

The lead feels really shady to me, I'd snap it off. He reps flushes but against a player capable of bluffing, I don't really believe that he's meekly check-called twice with a non nut FD against a CO open, I think he'd do something more aggressive than that at some point along the line. I'd expect to see some pairs turned into bluffs and some random missed draws.
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09-11-2018 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
Fold.

MDF is 57%. I'm counting 64 combos of a reasonable CO open range that fire on the flop and turn
That has to be way low. I'm firing virtually my entire range flop and turn here. Checking flop with some medium pairs/AK/AQ, checking turn with some jacks, betting just about everything else.

Edit: Giving up with some hopeless hands OTT as well, but 64 combos is still mega-low. On a quick count I have 48 combos just of hands containing kings. (12 KQ, 9 KJ, 12 KT, 12 K7s-K9s, 3 KK).

Last edited by ChrisV; 09-11-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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09-12-2018 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up
UTG straddles $6, fold, Hero r $25, CO c $25, fold, Villain (SB) 3b $95, fold x 2, Hero ???
I don't mind either jam or fold. Don't think it's a big mistake either way.
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09-13-2018 , 06:57 AM
What do the terms "linear range" and "polarized" mean?
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09-13-2018 , 08:23 AM
Linear range means V has the bottom of his range (let's say A2s, for example) and every hand that is better than it. A polarized range means that he has the bottom and the top, but not the middle. For example A2s-A5s and AJ+.
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09-13-2018 , 09:13 AM
That might be a confusing example. It doesn't have to be the same sort of hand. A common example of a polarized range is threebetting a tight player, when you have AK, AA, KK etc and also might throw in stuff like JTs and A2s. But you won't have KJo, typically.
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09-13-2018 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Linear range means V has the bottom of his range (let's say A2s, for example) and every hand that is better than it. A polarized range means that he has the bottom and the top, but not the middle. For example A2s-A5s and AJ+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
That might be a confusing example. It doesn't have to be the same sort of hand. A common example of a polarized range is threebetting a tight player, when you have AK, AA, KK etc and also might throw in stuff like JTs and A2s. But you won't have KJo, typically.
Ok, I see.
So if I raise the flop on a wet board, my range is linear. But if I raise a dry board, my range is polarized, more or less..
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09-13-2018 , 03:53 PM
Not really.

Imagine a big blind 3bet range on a continuum. Say your range is TT-AA, AK. That's a linear range. The range is connected. There is no gap in hand ranking.

Say your range is QQ-AA, A2s-A5s. That's a polarized range. The line on the continuum is broken. There is a gap in hand ranking.
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09-13-2018 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
So if I raise the flop on a wet board, my range is linear. But if I raise a dry board, my range is polarized, more or less.
For most Vs, yes, since their medium strength hands might be looking to charge draws on the wet flop, but will just look to get to a cheap SD on a dry one.

Its more commonly an issue to determine pre or OTR, though.
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09-14-2018 , 08:47 AM
Probably thread worthy but I already made a thread in what's probably the wrong forum.

Been playing seriously for about a year, vast majority FLHE vs loose passive players.

Took a week to travel / get better at 1-2 in a good location, have been watching a lot of deucescracked videos about live low stakes nl and it's been hopefully improving my game, but I got into a handful of spots in the last ~30 hours that left me with questions, here there are.

EP open limps, i raise to 7 in MP with AKo, bb calls, three ways to flop of J7Tr, bb checks, limper bets 10, i call, bb ships -80, other guy calls i fold - standard yeah? I'm similar stack size w/non all in player for 150bb.

90bb behind, utg limp, villain makes it 12, one cold call, i make it 40 otb with TT, SB shoves for 50-55, folds to villain who makes a min raise. (?)

Folds to me OTB with AKs, open to 7, bb shoves 50bb (?)

utg open ships 40bb, TT otb. (?)

Open 88 utg +2 to 8, 4 ways to flop of 234r, sb check, bb bets 10, utg calls, I raise to 30, sb min raises and every folds to me. (?)

Almost every opponent is loose/passive, just weird to see aggression from these players in these spots, and I'm unsure how to adjust.
Cash game dynamic seems to make me a nit, folded in I think all of these spots but would have called off a bunch in a tournament setting.
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09-14-2018 , 09:03 AM
Hand 1) Open is too small for most 1/2 games. Post flop is fine

Hand 2) Calling pre to set mine or 3-betting are both fine, imo. AP, snap folding, ldo.

Hand 3) Depends so much on V, but I'm often calling this shallow. Again, open is small which can be interpreted oddly by 1/2 Vs.

Hand 4) V dependent. If he's tilty I call it off. Otherwise, prob not.

Hand 5) Even though the bet is tiny, I probably just call the flop bet. AP, c/min-raise on a board like this from a loose/passive V is a set or a straight, almost always. Easy fold.
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09-14-2018 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Hand 1) Open is too small for most 1/2 games. Post flop is fine

Hand 2) Calling pre to set mine or 3-betting are both fine, imo. AP, snap folding, ldo.

Hand 3) Depends so much on V, but I'm often calling this shallow. Again, open is small which can be interpreted oddly by 1/2 Vs.

Hand 4) V dependent. If he's tilty I call it off. Otherwise, prob not.

Hand 5) Even though the bet is tiny, I probably just call the flop bet. AP, c/min-raise on a board like this from a loose/passive V is a set or a straight, almost always. Easy fold.
So... Should I be interpreting these results to develop reads or are these just unintentionally ****ty spots (where they just happened to be @ the bottom of their range, and I did too somehow)
Results include uhh, h1 they shipped J8 and T8, h2 sb AQo v Villain AK, h3 exposed single A so had that demolished, h4 n/a, h5 he shows 66 lol.

Last edited by lllusionist; 09-14-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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09-16-2018 , 03:04 PM
1/2 8handed, V is young and bought in for 140. Seen him play an active amt of hands but not tooo out of line. Been here 3 orbits. He raised KTs from sb to 11 after 2 limpers. He is UTG+1 with a stack of 82 and makes it 8. I have ATo next to act. No active 3bettors behind. A tilting player with $115 on the CO. Do we muck this hand?
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09-16-2018 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millnoc
1/2 8handed, V is young and bought in for 140. Seen him play an active amt of hands but not tooo out of line. Been here 3 orbits. He raised KTs from sb to 11 after 2 limpers. He is UTG+1 with a stack of 82 and makes it 8. I have ATo next to act. No active 3bettors behind. A tilting player with $115 on the CO. Do we muck this hand?
Yup.
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09-17-2018 , 08:51 AM
Hero is MAWG. Little too aggressive at times. Overconfident.

V is about our age. Recently moved to our table with a couple of other players, one of whom mentioned that V is in game for about $1,000.

V likes to bet pretty much pot-sized in every street.

In this hand, V is in BB and H is OTB. Effective stacks are $295.

$1/$2 NLTHE

Active Drunk in MP raises to $12. One caller and H calls with KQ off OTB. I think a 3-bet is better here. But drunk likes to bluff and stab at pots. Both blinds flat.

Flop K103 rainbow.

V donks for $60 from BB and it folds to me.

You?
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09-17-2018 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k
Hero is MAWG. Little too aggressive at times. Overconfident.

V is about our age. Recently moved to our table with a couple of other players, one of whom mentioned that V is in game for about $1,000.

V likes to bet pretty much pot-sized in every street.

In this hand, V is in BB and H is OTB. Effective stacks are $295.

$1/$2 NLTHE

Active Drunk in MP raises to $12. One caller and H calls with KQ off OTB. I think a 3-bet is better here. But drunk likes to bluff and stab at pots. Both blinds flat.

Flop K103 rainbow.

V donks for $60 from BB and it folds to me.

You?
We need to be fairly confident that QJ is in his range and AK isn't to call it off. If we're not sure on that, I don't think it's too weak to fold here and improve the read.

Of course, if our read says J9 is possible, then an easy call.
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09-17-2018 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4_4
We need to be fairly confident that QJ is in his range and AK isn't to call it off. If we're not sure on that, I don't think it's too weak to fold here and improve the read.



Of course, if our read says J9 is possible, then an easy call.


He has admitted that he doesn’t 3-bet AK preflop.

Is KJ in his hand enough with this bet to call? K9?
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09-17-2018 , 10:33 AM
AK 8 combos
33 3 combos
KT 6 combos
=17 combos

KJ 8 combos
QJ 12 combos
= 20

Probably close. Only so many villains go wild with KJ on KTx. If he's one or has some additional spaz, I guess it's cawl cawl cawl.
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09-17-2018 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4_4
AK 8 combos
33 3 combos
KT 6 combos
=17 combos

KJ 8 combos
QJ 12 combos
= 20

Probably close. Only so many villains go wild with KJ on KTx. If he's one or has some additional spaz, I guess it's cawl cawl cawl.

i don’t think 33 deserves full representation given the action
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09-17-2018 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millnoc
1/2 8handed, V is young and bought in for 140. Seen him play an active amt of hands but not tooo out of line. Been here 3 orbits. He raised KTs from sb to 11 after 2 limpers. He is UTG+1 with a stack of 82 and makes it 8. I have ATo next to act. No active 3bettors behind. A tilting player with $115 on the CO. Do we muck this hand?
Of course we do. Why are we even thinking of playing it?
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