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NL 400...WTF spot with KK vs Random Half Stack

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10-29-2009 , 07:58 PM

mce86

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,263

I mean , cmon! cf? bf? AI? wtf.
Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $377.40
UTG+2: $197.65
MP1: $406
MP2: $714
CO: $180.10
BTN: $48
Hero (SB): $400
BB: $80
UTG: $76

Pre-Flop: K

dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $4, MP1 raises to $18, 3 folds, Hero raises to $50, BB folds, UTG+2 calls $46, MP1 folds

Flop: ($122) Q

(2 Players)
Hero ??

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10-29-2009 , 08:23 PM

Tapow Dayok

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,121

1. Time down as if you are deep in thought
2. Bet $4 and hope villain already checked the "fold to any bet button"
3. ?????
4. Profit

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10-29-2009 , 08:29 PM

mce86

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapow Dayok

1. Time down as if you are deep in thought
2. Bet $4 and hope villain already checked the "fold to any bet button"
3. ?????
4. Profit

I like combining 1 and 2!!!

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10-29-2009 , 09:00 PM

riksanchez

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,066

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10-29-2009 , 09:50 PM

Rampage_Jackson

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,772

No reads I am assuming? Bet half pot and folding to a raise, or check/calling the flop are the two main flop lines I would be considering.

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10-29-2009 , 10:42 PM

mce86

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage_Jackson

No reads I am assuming? Bet half pot and folding to a raise, or check/calling the flop are the two main flop lines I would be considering.

Problem is...if I bet half pot, he is raising for $75 more.....Pot will be about 340 by then...hardly seems right....

Check calling is the same problem.....

Just giving up seems ridiculous of this unknown called the 3 bet with TT or JJ..

I just dont see any way to get away from the hand. Is there? Should there?

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10-29-2009 , 10:58 PM

w00t77

adept

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,037

No reads at all? If Villain is even semi decent here, he wont have an Ace here. I mean what hand in his range, that contains an Ace here would limped and called a 4bet here?

I think KK here is still good. B/call for me.

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10-29-2009 , 11:05 PM

hurt

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,142

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t77

your reasoning has some merit, except that the fact that villain doesn't have Ax doesn't make it a bet. it just makes it not a fold.

c/c or crai depending on the sizing - crai only if his sizing is so big that he's virtually committed.

never fold for sure.

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10-29-2009 , 11:12 PM

w00t77

adept

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,037

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurt

Yup, agree with that, letting him hang himself repping the Ace is fine. As long the intention is not to fold.

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10-29-2009 , 11:53 PM

#10

Rampage_Jackson

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurt

your reasoning has some merit, except that the fact that villain doesn't have Ax doesn't make it a bet. it just makes it not a fold.

That is great though. A fold is good. So is a call from worse, which are the two things that can happen if he doesn't have Ax or better. There are certain players who are calling Qx against a c-bet, but not betting Qx themselves.

I think your point though is more why turn our hand into a bluff, when he might bet for us.

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10-30-2009 , 04:45 PM

#11

MtgDerivBoy

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage_Jackson

Because you aren't turning your hand into a bluff...you are protecting your hand from a suck out. Definitely ahead here. If he's any good he's not going to bluff when checked to either, knowing that repping the A isn't believable and betting Q is no good if he's got show down value...he's going to take a free card to suck out on you, and then you're going to be pissed when he hits a gutshot with 9Ts or two pair when the J comes on the turn.

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10-30-2009 , 05:19 PM

#12

Tapow Dayok

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtgDerivBoy

Based on villain's preflop play, can't we rule out pretty much everything other than AK or pocket pairs here? Maybe AQs if he is really really bad.

We are way ahead or way behind here. No real need to protect, so check the flop.

Yeah, the villain might hit a two outer on the turn, but it's a chance worth taking to give the villain a chance to bluff.

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11-02-2009 , 09:07 AM

#13

BlackLotus69

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 109

Whet's his stats ? Afq? I think betting a flop when he's got like 140 or so is comitting and he's going to give you action only with the best hand.

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11-02-2009 , 10:13 AM

#14

Renton

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

b/f or c/f

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11-02-2009 , 10:16 AM

#15

Fissshhhhh

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Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,847

I think a cBet here is wrong. Nothing worse calling; nothing better folding; and no turn cards that scare your hand.

Any reads?

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11-05-2009 , 06:12 PM

#16

imfromsweden

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,152

wow, personally I'd just chec/fold this but according to you guys, that's horrible.

I mean, like fish said, nothing worse (or at least very little) calls, so we gotta check. Is he gonna fire KQ or JJ or some random stuff that we have beat if we check? I doubt it. So the only choice is to c/f? Where's this wrong

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11-06-2009 , 03:43 AM

#17

Renton

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

i misread the stack depths, its just a c/f here

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11-06-2009 , 10:18 AM

#18

AllTheCheese

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Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

It's c/c. In semi-recent memory, I've snapped off a bluff from 77 in an almost identical spot. If anything, Villain is just as likely to shove nothing as he is to shove a better hand than yours, with which he'll often try to tarp.

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11-06-2009 , 03:02 PM

#19

ranka

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCheese

+1

It's fun to read c/f posts

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11-06-2009 , 03:31 PM

#20

PLAYOFFS

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,058

c/c way better than any other option

i'd 3bet a half stack more here since they tend to have a narrower range from the getgo

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