NL 400 QQ in 3b pot board runs out meh - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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NL 400 QQ in 3b pot board runs out meh

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03-01-2011 , 04:48 PM

alex23

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,962

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: $400.00
Hero (UTG): $738.30
UTG+1: $249.20
UTG+2: $501.00
MP1: $689.50
MP2: $501.10
CO: $1708.90
BTN: $685.50
SB: $2011.05

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is UTG with Q

Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $42, 5 folds, Hero calls $30

Flop: ($90.00) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $80, Hero calls $80

Turn: ($250.00) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $152, Hero calls $152

River: ($554.00) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $212

Villain is 14/11 over 783 hands, 4b% 3bet. Flop cbet in 3b pot 83%, turn cbet 38%. Not sure what to think/do, or if we should be raising on some earlier street.

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03-01-2011 , 05:53 PM

jimmyvjv13

Life Grinder

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,975

Reasons to raise flop:

160 big blinds deep
3 bet pot
top set
two tone, ultra drawy board
villian pots
we're OOP

Reasons to flat flop:

tarp ldo

Yeah... raise the flop

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03-01-2011 , 06:04 PM

alex23

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,962

Pretty good points :P

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03-01-2011 , 06:31 PM

Renton

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

lead flop or c/r ofc

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03-02-2011 , 01:03 AM

IWearSportsJerseys

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13

Reasons to raise flop:

160 big blinds deep
3 bet pot
top set
two tone, ultra drawy board
villian pots
we're OOP

Reasons to flat flop:

tarp ldo

Yeah... raise the flop

[/endtopic]

As played, fold. AK gets there. And AA. And KK. And KQ. And I doubt a lower set is vbetting the river with its showdown value. I can see AA vbetting given your super-weak line with the intent of folding to a raise.

Last edited by IWearSportsJerseys; 03-02-2011 at 01:14 AM.

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03-06-2011 , 08:46 PM

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWearSportsJerseys

With a 4% 3b and and a 38% turn cbet in 3b pots I doubt he shows up with KQ or KK much in his range. Realistically if villain shows up with a K on the river it's AK and a very small % of the time KK. Maybe there's some merit in c/raising AI OTR although we don't have many kings in our range either. Given hero's stats I don't think he's calling this villain pre OOP with hands like KQ, and villain probably thinks hero 4bs KK+ almost always, so yeah raising the river probably wouldn't be that great.

Also yeah, raise flop.

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03-06-2011 , 08:54 PM

IWearSportsJerseys

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,697

Yeah, I was implying KQs if anything, and even then, it is such a small part of the probability-weighted range that I do not think its inclusion or exclusion affects our decision too much.

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03-08-2011 , 07:36 PM

Misohoni

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937

I say raise flop fold to shove. River is gross it's like he is begging for a call.

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03-09-2011 , 02:03 PM

MikePez

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misohoni

I say raise flop fold to shove. River is gross it's like he is begging for a call.

why would you fold to a shove on flop?

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03-10-2011 , 02:44 PM

#10

UCDLaCrosse

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,903

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13

Reasons to raise flop:

160 big blinds deep
3 bet pot
top set
two tone, ultra drawy board
villian pots
we're OOP

Reasons to flat flop:

tarp ldo

Yeah... raise the flop

herm, seems good

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03-11-2011 , 10:16 AM

#11

rich99cook

banned

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePez

why would you fold to a shove on flop?

Folding the nuts is the thing to do Mike!

C/r flop for all reasons stated above. River as played is an easy fold now.

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03-14-2011 , 09:02 PM

#12

tcarr89

adept

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,058

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misohoni

I say raise flop fold to shove. River is gross it's like he is begging for a call.

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03-15-2011 , 01:44 AM

#13

lancelott_

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,465

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13

Reasons to raise flop:

160 big blinds deep
3 bet pot
top set
two tone, ultra drawy board
villian pots
we're OOP

Reasons to flat flop:

tarp ldo

Yeah... raise the flop

brilliant (gosh i wish i could post that famous clapping guy picture)

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03-15-2011 , 04:52 AM

#14

MikePez

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich99cook

Folding the nuts is the thing to do Mike!

and i always wondered what i do wrong.

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03-16-2011 , 02:09 PM

#15

Pay4Myschool

Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,462

c/r the flop, get it in!

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03-16-2011 , 05:56 PM

#16

SecondChance

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 974

Everyone saying c/r is being results orriented; you have top set...slowplay at least 1 street

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03-16-2011 , 07:05 PM

#17

GrandMelon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,734

Good spot to bluff from villains perspective since you have very few Ks in your range given pre and flop action. At same time he doesnt really rep a K since KK prob checks back turn and most people bet less or check back AK on turn since its FR and people dont really call worse in this spot that often. His river sizing is awesome no matter he has so its pretty close, vs someone good Id probably call here given above and expect to see either AA or air but vs most FR regs you can just sigh fold.

Edit: didnt see AKss was a massive draw which makes a lot of sense, i dunno gay spot

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03-16-2011 , 08:26 PM

#18

thepizzlefosho

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,206

i call because i dont think most FR villains bet AKss or KQs on the turn, and I think the river actually reduces his combos of AA because some FR nits won't shove that on the river.

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03-20-2011 , 03:16 PM

#19

Misohoni

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich99cook

Folding the nuts is the thing to do Mike!

C/r flop for all reasons stated above. River as played is an easy fold now.

I posted from my iPhone thought it was all spades.

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03-20-2011 , 04:29 PM

#20

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misohoni

I posted from my iPhone thought it was all spades.

Are you sure you want to dig deeper?

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03-20-2011 , 05:38 PM

#21

jij452

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,169

^^

lol

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