Raise as awful as it feels is the best option.

a.) They might have only a top pair
b.) They are donks
c.) There's a lot of draws which both of them could be on so the weaker draws fold.
d.) You probably get a cheap showdown and not get bluffed.
e.) They might fold 99 since they got the info from donking. (happens once a century, but if you have a nasty image it might work).
f.) They are donks
h.) You get more action from the donks when you're not just nut-peddling.

Meh still stand by my opinion on this hand. Also while multi-tabling making this raise is going to be much higher variance especially the raise/check/hero call river praying they don't hit their million outs. I just don't think everyone is being realistic here and planning ahead on future streets when the majority of cards are going to crush your hand.

fwiw I would much rather raise than flat call the turn because calling is just terrible imo, but I still fold

I dont disagree with you that raising isnt that greatest here although I think its better than folding. It sounds to me like your saying the villians could have over cards and your saying if a villian calls and an over card hits they have it and I am crushed this is very weak IMO.

you're right here, but we can bet a lot of turns again if he calls our flopraise

Fold..

End of thread IMO. Pisco say's its a fold .................it's a fold!

I'm with Vinny in the candyass club. I don't hate a call or a raise, but I don't think they're big time +EV plays here.

Take the raise: You're in a pot with a couple of donks. What do donks love to do? Thats right, call. So if you raise you stand a good chance of having to play a pretty big pot with 8s. I don't really think thats the outcome you're looking for here. Sure, theres a good chance you've got the best hand, but if you don't take it down here you're going to be guessing your way through the rest of the hand and there aren't many turn cards that are going to make you real happy about playing a big pot here. In fact, most of them will make you regret building a big pot.

The HH you posted for example...if the river bet is 2/3 pot instead of 1/9 pot, are you going to call with your 8s?

Calling is probably better since it lets you exercise some pot control with a vulnerable hand.

I suck in these spots. I probably go with a mix of fold/call/raise and I doubt I ever choose the right one. meh

I would never fold on the flop, but I don't really like raising.

Very rarely will you actually take it down, and when they call you're stuck playing a big pot with a mediocre hand that has very few outs to improve, plus you're going to hate half the deck on the turn.

Also if someone 3-bet shoves their flush draw they'll put you in a bad spot (you'll have to fold but it would be a mistake if you had known their cards).