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Need help with Limped Pots Need help with Limped Pots

10-23-2010 , 12:03 AM
It seems like I've been losing a decent amount in limped multiway pots. It's something I rarely encounter in online 6max games but is definitely a huge part of the game in a live setting. I've identified 2 major leaks I have in limped pots.

First, I would flop something marginal like top pair weak kicker and call a flop bet, only to have to fold the turn or river, or get owned at showdown very often to a better hand. Is it often correct to just go ahead and fold top pair on even a dry flop to the first bet, as it would put me in tough situations later on against a relatively undefined range of hands I'm up against?

Another way I lose is that I would flop a big hand, only to run into a bigger one for a big chunk of my stack. I chalk it up as a cooler but maybe I should start learning to actually pot control with any hand less than the nuts. The reasoning behind this would be that although my hand is so strong in absolute terms, against 5+ others with ranges virtually encompassing any two, it might not be in relative terms against a fair amount of action. Last night I flopped trips and all I could think of was how to size my bets to get my stack in, but perhaps this is the wrong mindset in limped pots, especially live where people's stack off ranges are a bit tighter than online. In general, it's hard to gauge other people's perceptions of the strengths of their hands when they bet in limped pots. Are they betting middle pair because they think it's good? Are they betting bottom 2 pair on a coordinated flop and will they be willing to stack off with it? How do I maximize value with my big hands while losing the minimum to the hands that beat me?
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10-23-2010 , 12:25 AM
For the first question, I don't know if it is right, but I do it all of the time.
If I hold K-3 in the BB on a board of K-x-x I will fold if any somewhat tight player or unknown bets, particularly if they others to act after them.

Two really varies based on the villains and your image. My general rule is that I am not looking to go broke in limped pots. If I flop trip Qs with a 9 kicker, I am not really looking to play for stacks against anyone except the fishiest of players. Ranging is hard at those tables as villains limp range is often ATC.
As far as betting ranges, again it depends on the board. Many low stakes villains holding A-7 are more likely to bet a board of 8-7-2r than one of K-7-2r.
I will admit to taking a pot control line rather than jamming with solid, but vulnerable, holdings.
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10-23-2010 , 03:11 AM
The short answer is that limped pots require you to have an accurate read on your villains, and to also have a decent understanding of your table image. Particularly, how each villain views you.

You then have to use your read in conjunction with your image to make the right plays.

You need to also pick the right opportunities to take control of the action/pot. A perfect opportunity is when a scare card hits.

Common problems players have in limped pots is that they turn into calling stations. Another problem is when they are bluffing, they don't bet enough. They go for these psuedo thin value bets, like betting $25 into a $90 pot. The thinking being that if they are betting so little that they WANT villain to call and thus villain is supposed to think "Wow, he wants me to call, he must have a good hand, so I better fold". But in reality, villains just call because the bet reeks of weakness.

limped pots also require you to figure out which pots are up for grabs.

There is a difference between trying to steal this board:

9 3 3 5 8

vs. trying to steal this board

9 3 T 5 8

Lastly, the biggest problem I notice is that too many players just play limped pots too weak post flop. They have no regard for what line they are taking, when to take control, when to back off, when to raise, when to fold.

But keep at at. just focus on your reads and exploiting your image as percieved by your various villains.
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10-23-2010 , 03:16 AM
The major problem with limped pots is that there are so many more hands out there like you suggested, but this is especially a big problem because a lot of hands are still out there on the turn. A lot of people are calling the flop with things like backdoor draws or gutshots when they normally wouldn't because effective stacks are so big. There's not really a good way to combat this, except that you need to realize that people aren't bluffing very much in limped pots, and hands like 2 pair or trips go down in value.

If you notice people don't fold much in limped pots to try to see cheap draws or backdoor draws you need to stop playing straightforward and use alternative lines like check raising or overbetting to narrow down the field to where 2 pair or trips is likely to be a good hand.
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10-23-2010 , 12:07 PM
What about "If it ain't worth raising it ain't worth playing."

Why limp? Is it to set mine? Or is it because you have some *purty cards* and are hoping to catch a flop? What is your plan if you don't catch the flop that you're after? Plus, if you're limping every (or almost every) hand, any decent player at the table knows what you're doing and will force you into the difficult situations that result in mistakes, or the bad players will get lucky against y and cost you $s.

If you have a decent hand raise. Even if it's just 3x or 4x. Then at least you can try to make a move on the flop and take down a pot or isolate down to 1 or 2 other players. Makes your decisions a lot easier. And before you tell me that you'll lose faster by raising - take a look at the size of the last pot you lost with TPGK. You can pay for a lot of 3X raises with that pot.

My advice? Stop limping so much without a plan for your hand when you push out the $2.
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10-23-2010 , 12:08 PM
Some other things i've noticed about limped pots (4way+ action)

If it gets to the river and no one has bet, you need 2pair or better to call. If someone does bet, raise or fold but do not call.

You want to narrow the field on the turn, and if the river is a brick, you need to bet again but the bet needs to be ENOUGH to push villains out. 2/3pot at least.

If you hit the nuts on the river and the board is wet enough, SHOVE.
If you have 76 and the board is 4 3 9 2 5 r, shovel it all-in! Any six will call you and you might get a call from a few Aces (yes, it happens).

If you have a nit image, steal more. If you have a LAG image, you will need to double barrel more.

If you put someone on TPWK, you need to bet enough to bet them off and it will require two streets worth of betting (also make sure villain isn't a station)

If you river the nuts or hit your draw (i.e. baby flush) DO NOT try to slow play and c/r. 95% of the time, no one is betting river for you.

Never call the idiot end of a straight on the river.

Never call the river 'hoping' to chop a scary board.
You have A4 and board is: 7 7 3 2 2 r

Never shove (unless you have the nuts) when only an equivalent hand or a better hand can call.
You have A4 and board is: 9 9 2 9 A
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