Live NLHE 5/5 full ring

4 Limps and I (900$) open 40$ on the button with JsJd

UTG (500$) calls and HJ (360$) calls

Flop 7h Qh Kc (pot 140$) checks around

Turn Jc (pot 140$) UTG bets 50$ and HJ raise 125$

What is the optimal play here ? I ended up shoving but have been told by someone that this is a 100% call spot. I’m not seeing how I can call with so many bad river cards.

No particular reads on opponents.

I personally would call here, and here is the reason:
1. It is possible one of the player has straight. A flat call here would do a bit of pot control, and end up lose less if that happens.
2. Use my position on the river. If I flat call here, and they both check the river, I can comfortably put a value bet on the river. If they both go all in on the river, I can easily throw away JJ.
3. If I hit a boat, I have position and put a reraise on the river.
4. If I reraise on the turn, a lot of 2 pairs hand would just fold, whereas if I call, they will call a bet on the river.

Here is my personal view. I would always call here.

While I normally think aggro is better, this is a call but I don't think it was a terrible shove.

Everyone checked turn. The only hands where the J suddenly makes them get bold are slow played sets who suddenly fear draws, 2 of those sets stack you, 2 gut shot made str8s which stack you short of a boat, several 2P which should be smart enough to fold, FDs which you might get V1 to fold but not V2 due to their stack sizes and current level of committed chips, or best case a OESD which V1 might fold but V2 will crying call.

So I think you'll get a few worse hands to fold, you're close to even with the drawing hands, and you're behind a few hands.

I'm not smart enough to Calc those odds on the fly but it's close enough that you usually need to make your boat to win. I'm going to guess you're about 33% to win where the set holds or the boat beats a straight or flush. If both Vs GII with you, their stacks make your pay off close but not quite good enough vs the risk.

Conversely, if you call and they are on straights or flushes and you and one or two Vs make their hands, you're going to get paid on a risk free river bet.

If someone is ambitious enough to do the math on all this, I would love to see how my gut stacks up to the real numbers.

The HJ only has 235 left after he raises the UTG donk bettor, who has 450 left. The pot after he raises the turn is 315 and we cover them all. Jamming there is fine.

No one 3bet pre, so QQ and KK aren't really likely.

Call and jam both seem fine. If you jam, you can still get called by KQ, 77, and it is nice to deny equity to draws. More than half the deck are either bad for your hand or action killing. On the other hand, if you call, you get action from more worse hands, and you are in position, so get get more moneyfrom the rivef. And if you had a hand like AhKH, KhTh, you probably want to call. Calling is nice to protect your calling range and give you some nut runouts when the board pairs.

Right you are. I went back and saw this is 5/5. Much less likely that an OMC type player from the 1/3 pool limp calls to make sure an A doesn't flop.

Both calling and shoving are fine for all the reasons mentioned above.

I think raising favors calling, because if the HJ was on a draw and it missed, he's just gonna fold otr but if we raise now he's never folding (and if he did turn a straight, we're not really going anywhere anyway with those eff stacks).

Goes both ways. Jamming can fold out J7s, Q7s, K7s....etc.

And HJ can also blast off with missed draws. Probably won't.....but likely just as likely as 2p folding.

And depending on his draw and the player, he can still fold to a cold 3bet jam. Flush draws aren't liking cold 3bet jam with only 1 card to come.


Could probably flip a coin and not gain or lose any significant EV.

Yeah but after he raises he only has 195 left, I don't really see him folding any of those hands once he raises (even if he knows he might have to fill up).

Call and jam both fine because we have position. OOP I would favor a jam to ensure we get the rest of the money in vs KQ etc.

Actually, given this is multi-way and we benefit from getting UTG to fold his equity (I don’t think he’s putting additional money in on the river with worse), I prefer to just jam this spot.

Raise is only for half pot so HJ shouldn’t hero fold any two pair. If HJ folds a combo draw that’s good for us.

Honestly though I doubt HJ folds any hands after he raises, and we’re usually ahead of HJ so jam seems best.