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Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand"

02-22-2013 , 06:20 AM
So the casino just said this is the last hand.... hence me not reloading.

Hero: Probablly have a losing image, it had been a rough night. But definatly Aggressive. May be viewed as bad lag. 60bb.

Villian: Big stack at table, playing tight. He is your typical TAG reg. Not the bad type, a winner. Covers.

3 limps to villian on button, vil limps. Hero completes the small blind with 44, BB checks.

Flop: 2 4 7 ddd

Hero leads out for 11, 4 folds, villan raises to 32........hero?
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 06:22 AM
Make it 95$
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:01 AM
You can't just give your stack size in BB then give absolute dollar amounts for stack sizes without telling us the stakes.

I'm assuming this is 1/2 and effective stacks are $120? If so - he can't raise to $95, leaving only $25 behind; it is essentially a re-raise all-in, which will fold out any overpair or A/K/Qx with a high diamond hand.

I'd probably just call flop, jam turn.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:10 AM
its 1/2 obviously he's not leading out for 11 with a 5 way limped pot at 2/5

and shove, villain isn't folding over pairs or big diamonds last hand of the night for 40 more bb against a "bad lag" after 3bing
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:11 AM
This is a gross spot, I would take all over pairs out of vills range first bc of limped pot and the fact that he doesn't raise the flop he would just call to see the turn. There are 6 combos of sets we beat half. Vill could do this with the Ad but doubt its a naked A, possibly Ad7x type hand but more likely Ad3x type hand if he was going to raise with just the nut draw. But the largest part of vills range is going to be suited connectors, and suited hands in general by limping the button.

With the action taken you are showing quite a bit of strength by leading into the field on a monotone flop, and vills (good vills) are not going to pick this spot to just bluff you out of a limped pot so the above range will be pretty accurate (with a lot less AdXx hands). So you are behind quite often here.

Raising doesn't accomplish anything but fold out AdXx hands, maybe baby flushes but doubtful and maybe 22, turning a set into a bluff is pretty lol. I think the only thing we can do here is to call and reevaluate on the turn. If the board doesn't pair and vill bombs turn I think we have to let this hand go, vills range is going to be weighted way to heavily to hands that have us drawing to 10 cards.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:17 AM
^I'm all in. It's definitely not turning our hand into a bluff. I'm never folding a flopped set for 60bb, you're over analyzing things. And Dragon-Ash, I don't like just calling the flop and allowing a free look at the turn, shoving is the only play here.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:24 AM
yes, 1/2.

One important thing I left out, the casino makes the button post a $2 blind. So he did'nt actually limp, just checked his option. I agree there are 0 overpairs in villians range....I doubt he checks option IP with 88+
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 07:34 AM
I just ship 53,5 bb, stand up and be ready to go home with 120bb after two more cards :-).

Last edited by imvv11; 02-22-2013 at 07:35 AM. Reason: 53,5 bb, not 60:)
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakeme
^I'm all in. It's definitely not turning our hand into a bluff. I'm never folding a flopped set for 60bb, you're over analyzing things. And Dragon-Ash, I don't like just calling the flop and allowing a free look at the turn, shoving is the only play here.
I understand that a set is a set and sets are awesome and it sucks having to fold them. But if vill flips over his cards and 100% of the time he has a flush are you still shoving? If you are then it's pretty bad you are lighting money on fire.

By shoving what do you expect to get called by that you beat? Specially if its the last hand of the night I can see a vill showing the Ad and folding.

By flatting we haven't froze the action from 2 pair and 22, which is the only value range for us so a total of 18 combos, and there are 90 total flush combos of diamonds, lets say vill raises the top 10 suited ds (A9+, KT+, QJ, JT) there's still 80 combos (all are in play from this new info of a blind on the btn) of flushes that have us beat.

Lets say vill raises with Ad always as we'll but has to have other equity in the hand to do that, A7,A5,A4,A3,A2. 13 total combos 31 hands we are ahead of now. Lets say vill does this with all AdXx hands but raises AQ pre. That's another 15 combos so we are up to 46 we beat, 28 have at least 30% equity vs us.

This is a terrible spot to shove a set, I am not playing poker to get lucky. I play to make well thought out decisions and pick spots that I have an equity edge va ranges. Here we do not.

Even though we have 60bbs, it's a call on the flop and fold turn if turn is bombed and board doesn't pair.

If this were a raised pot pre I would be getting my stack in on the flop, vills range is narrower and has a lot few suited Ds in his range then this situ and more over pairs with D and AdXx. Especially being 60bbs deep.

FYI: if you make a baby flush fold when you have a set you are turning your hand into a bluff.

Last edited by Running Uphill; 02-22-2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Long posts from iPhone suck
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 09:07 AM
One of the best posts I have read in a while. You pretty much nailed it, not sure much else can be added.

"a set is a set and sets are awesome"- best thing i've ever heard
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 09:46 AM
Look, with your shortstack, you are all in here. "A set is a set, and sets are awesome, and the nuts at 60 BB". Fixed that for ya, Running. If the board pairs you are gonna wish you reloaded, last hand or not....
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 09:52 AM
I think he probably has a flush but you still have the chance for the turn to pair the board with your 6 outs and your 9 outs on the river. The odds are getting there for the call maybe call and see what he makes it on the turn.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:09 AM
This is never a flat with given situation AINEC
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:14 AM
Def not saying fold flop ever here, I'm just not getting it in just yet against this particular vill, there are a tonnnnnnn of vills that this is a shove on the flop. But not against a good tag in a limped pot with me leading out into a big field on a monotone board...if that's not a strong line idk what is and this vill knows its a super strong line so he's almost never bluffing here.

I think we have to call pray for a board pair and if he bombs the turn fold if not getting ~5:1 which we probably won't be.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:15 AM
why lead this flop 5 way if any resistance is going to make you want to shut down? if you're plan is to play your set as passively as possible just c/c, no need to bloat a pot you're not even willing to play for with 60bb.

also its 7 and 10 outs, still another 4
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:28 AM
Last hand .. you are perfectly set up to shove here, but I would min raise instead. You will look like you want to leave with some money if he shoves. You are jamming the Turn anyway if he smooths and he may fold TPTK with Ad to shove ... 'why give money to this guy on the last hand'!!

If he has a flush or 2 pair he will shove thinking you are looking for a 4-flush with A or K. Don't really think he would put you on a set as of yet because most 'losing' players would have raised the last hand looking to build a pot for set mining so you have no respect here as of yet and a shove generally demands some sort of respect.

You have to view this as a flush draw scenario (with one less out) and although it may not be the best poker decision at 8pm for your style I have seen plenty of players who refuse to cash out for $40 bucks and just throw it in there during the last 5 hands, especially when they are in a losing session. I guess in theroy you will feel better that you went down swinging rather than folding a fairly strong hand ... I assume you are never folding, right?

Min raise/call or Min raise/shove Turn. GL
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Uphill

I think we have to call pray for a board pair and if he bombs the turn fold if not getting ~5:1 which we probably won't be.
4:1
10 outs
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 10:44 AM
Correct, forgot to carry the 1
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Last hand .. you are perfectly set up to shove here, but I would min raise instead. You will look like you want to leave with some money if he shoves. You are jamming the Turn anyway if he smooths and he may fold TPTK with Ad to shove ... 'why give money to this guy on the last hand'!!

If he has a flush or 2 pair he will shove thinking you are looking for a 4-flush with A or K. Don't really think he would put you on a set as of yet because most 'losing' players would have raised the last hand looking to build a pot for set mining so you have no respect here as of yet and a shove generally demands some sort of respect.

You have to view this as a flush draw scenario (with one less out) and although it may not be the best poker decision at 8pm for your style I have seen plenty of players who refuse to cash out for $40 bucks and just throw it in there during the last 5 hands, especially when they are in a losing session. I guess in theroy you will feel better that you went down swinging rather than folding a fairly strong hand ... I assume you are never folding, right?

Min raise/call or Min raise/shove Turn. GL
This is terrible advice, of all the hands vill could have why the hell would we want him to fold Ad7x????????
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 04:28 PM
So if every option seems bad, would it be better to check the flop?
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSLTS
So if every option seems bad, would it be better to check the flop?
Absolutely not. You are committed here with 60 bb. Only question is how best to get the moniez in. If you think he might fold to a reraise, then flat flop and shove turn. Checking the flop is not gonna help us get AI.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote
02-22-2013 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLATCALLBRAND
why lead this flop 5 way if any resistance is going to make you want to shut down? if you're plan is to play your set as passively as possible just c/c, no need to bloat a pot you're not even willing to play for with 60bb.

also its 7 and 10 outs, still another 4
This. Don't lead out if you're ever folding to aggression. We got what we wanted by leading out, now stick it in. Ad with a pair is definitely a possible hand for him to have here. Folding to the raise is bad and just calling gives him a chance to draw out.
Mid set, Monotone board, on "last hand" Quote

      
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