Something worth discussing I think, I'm not trying to make an "Everybody should shortstack pokers!" thread but I know many LLSNLers who are often on a shortstack for various reasons and many aren't neccesarily bad. I'd like to open this thread to the discussion of the pros of shortstacking LLSNL and some strategy/theory for people sitting with 30/60bbs.

In before "Top up".

I can tell you from experience that it's not worth doing at 1/2. The percentages all work against you, perhaps the most important of which is the percent of every pot you win that gets raked out.

When the pots you win are smaller percentage-wise than the pots your deep-stack opponents win, that tends to negate the innate edge that shortstacking gives you. That one drawback alone could cancel out all the potential benefits of shortstacking.

The majority of opponents make the most mistakes the deeper they get, so playing short stacked doesn't allow the opportunity to exploit these mistakes.

Only real reason I can see for short stacking is if you are on a limited roll or if your adjusting to higher stakes

So you buy in, wait ages until you get a decent hand, then shove, and maybe double your 60 dollars. Wheeee. Shortstacking is rough live because you can't multitable (duh) and you don't get enough 3bet shove hands in the time enough to make it worth it.

Or you have buy in for full, play more hands because you can actually play poker, and have fish donk off $60 on the regular and a couple hundo everyone once and a while.

If you want to buy in for the minimum and nit it up before taking some full stack shots at a higher limit than you are used to, sure. But shortstacking isn't nearly as profitable as playing with a full stack.

Just curious, why are you asking?

you basically have to fold everything and constantly top up. if u dont mind brainless +ev clicking then its prob fun, tho ul get stomped once you build a stack most likely.

Bankroll issues or plo is the only way you should be short stacking.

I'm play really nitty on 30/40bbs. You can raise 1010 utg get a ton of callers and c/f on overcards. Nobody will ever 3bet less than KK. So play 1010+,AQo+. Once you win a pot or double add in opening up in position. Adding KJ+,A10s+,88+. Once you get to a normal stack(100bbs+) you will have a winning image and can own the table.

As a general strategy there are a lot of problems short stacking live. It is hard to do mechanically and the variance is very high because low stakes villains call too loose. If you do it with any skill, it should be profitable, but it is less profitable then buying in deep and playing for straight value.

As a strategy for entering games your unfamiliar with, it makes more sense. I have done this on occasion when I'm sitting at a table with obvious maniac action but where I don't know the most active villains. Starting with a short stack and then topping up after an orbit or two lets you get a feel for the villains without risking a full buy in. It also means you can't get max value for your monsters if you flop one, but that is the price your paying to avoid the risk. I have also done it when I sat down at new stake levels, that is the only time I've done it for an entire sessions.

Do you want your opponents to make $10 mistakes or $200 mistakes?

How has this not been locked? Search function /thread.


Short stacking is OK if you're just learning or have major BR issues. Otherwise, it's a wasteof time and money.

Don't short stack unless you want much easier decisions, less overall variance, and a winrate close to 80% of a deep stackers rate


Just unleash a huge chunk of your roll, buy in deep, and spew


After all, only bad/spewy/scared$/under rolled donkies short stack- poker is ego, to satisfy our ego we must buy in deep and cover everyone at all times

i don´t think you should be shortstacking in PLO, edges get bigger when there is money behind, shortstacking PLO is just a shipfest and even higher variance.

i have a friend who semi short stacks to help cut down on variance. he lost once with AA to KK in a big pot and started buying in for $120 instead of $200+. Plus, he really doesn't have a poker bankroll and just plays when he has the $$$ to play.

i think if you're going to be serious, you're better off buying in for 100 BBs. you're missing opportunties to make money by shortstacking. you get AA vs. KK. do you really want to only have $60 in play? you get 44 and the pot is raised to $15. you have to fold. the flop is K74 and you miss a chance to win a $400 pot against AK because people don't fold TPTK.

If you have the bankroll you should probably buy in for at least 100BB.

Some games allow even bigger, and i'm personally not sure of the merits/drawbacks/brm requirements of buying in bigger, but if i had the appropriate roll i'd always buy in for 100BB. I ALWAYS short stack when i first go to a table though, just to case out the action. The best thing about deep play is that you get massive implied odds because noone is folding anything. If you have 55 and the board comes 556 and villain has 78, they ain't folding unless you triple barrel them hard.

Last night for instance, i did my usual short-stack when new to the table thing, and picked up QQ first orbit. 60BB effective for me, so i shove over a raise and a call, get SIX callers.
Held up for a massive pot for me.

About 5 orbits later I pick up TT, and see a board of 5TJJ2 and end up all in for a ~600BB pot against J4.

If i don't win with the QQ and just buy back in short, I come away from the night probably a small loser.

The casino I play at only offers $2/$5 with a $100-$300 buy-in. Is that game even worth playing, since everyone starts pretty shortstacked.

Depends on rake, player skill levels, etc but generally it is as u can still buy in for a decent amount (60bb) instead of having to buy in for something ridiculous like 20 or 30bb

Short stacking can be profitable and effective but I think it's just not worth it at most places mainly because of the rake. I've short stacked 2/5 over a decent sample and have done well but the place I play at has no rake. If I was playing at a casino I wouldn't short stack (except maybe early on to check out a table)

Short stacking actually increases variance long term in terms of number of buyins but not necessarily of terms of dollars. It also isn't nearly as profitable as deep stacks for a good winning player but can at least limit your losses if u lose long term lol

If you're playing good short stack it's actually much higher variance. common misconception.