megadraw facing huge flop shove - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Well he went all in for like 5x pot. This isn’t a standard situation and we need near coinflip equity to put it in.

We have no fold equity or anything. We only have the equity in our hand. If he’s shoving a range that isn’t profitable to call against, we have to fold

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11-11-2020 , 04:04 PM

#27

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

We need ~47%? I think we should call without reads. If we have someone who only shoves sets and straights here, fine but this looks weaker than that.

EDIT

Worst case we have 42% vs. sets only, 44% vs. sets + 54s nut straight. We have 48.8% vs. mid set, top set and all straights.

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11-11-2020 , 04:25 PM

#28

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,609

I'd call with the Straight flush outs.

Also logic isn't sound with people saying "Well don't open 85s or bet the flop if you aren't going to call a ship."

We don't know he is going to ship all in

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11-11-2020 , 04:30 PM

#29

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,748

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I'd call with the Straight flush outs.

Also logic isn't sound with people saying "Well don't open 85s or bet the flop if you aren't going to call a ship."

We don't know he is going to ship all in

unless we're playing level 1 poker
we shouldn't have acted until that crossed our minds

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11-11-2020 , 04:52 PM

#30

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

unless we're playing level 1 poker
we shouldn't have acted until that crossed our minds

okay by your logic - we have KK 1000BBs.

UTG open's we 3bet in HJ and BB ships all in for 1000BBs.

We should have thought about that before we 3bet right?

oh and obligatory mention.

All live poker is level 1 poker

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11-11-2020 , 06:02 PM

#31

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

+1. Or you call a 3 bet to 10 bb with KQss 1000 bb deep, flop 432sss and our opponent jams all in. When an uncommon situation happens, it needs to be looked at with an uncommon lens.

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11-11-2020 , 08:41 PM

#32

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

85s is not a bad open. Borderline but not a clear muck like some people are implying.

Getting a good flop doesn’t mean we need to either stack off or fold pre. That’s just a total non sequitur. Same with saying that if we can’t call a c/shove we should have checked. You can have hands which are literally never good enough to stack off on a future street and still play them profitably.

Having a shot at the high hand moves this from moderately bad fold to a very bad fold. Your high hand EV is around $40. That moves you to breakeven vs sets+NFDs and +$100 vs the nuts.

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11-12-2020 , 06:05 AM

#33

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,748

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

i don't have the patience to explain all the differences between deep stack and 150bb poker.
My point is/was if we choose to open a hand like 85 that in all likelyhood at best is flopping a draw then yes we should be expecting to GII .
granted we would want us to be the ones jamming so we have some fold equity but either way GII.
other wise what are we doing checking till we hit our hand on the river and never getting paid off ?
if we learn to expect the unexpected then it doesn;t catch us off guard.

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11-12-2020 , 03:08 PM

#34

BlueSpade84

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 334

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson

Thx for the comments. I didn't realize in game how strong my draw was so I folded. The guy to my right says "pretty sure you're ahead of a set there" and I panicked thinking I had >50% even against value heavy range but he was wrong tho not by a lot.
...

Opening 85s on button is not "playing junk" lmao

LOL. The bolded cracked me up!

Yes, the comments above are correct. I would just make it a habit in live to never, ever under any circumstances fold an open ended straight flush draw on the flop and you will be fine. Without seeing villain's cards I can think of no scenario where I would feel that I am behind his range (at least until we are closer to 1000bb stacks).

The confidence that is conveyed in the statement about the strength of an 85's open doesn't appear to be backed by actual poker knowledge, as you seen unaware of the strength of this draw.

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11-12-2020 , 10:24 PM

#35

RalphWaldoEmerson

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,966

https://i.imgur.com/yt9jvPL.png

85s is a standard BTN open, top 50%, even top 45% in some schematics. Feel free to open fold it pre, but I think you're losing EV in a live game personally, and I don't even think it's close.

Yeah I wasn't sure how strong my draw is when facing a 10x pot overbet. Obv I'm not folding in a normal sizing scenario. Forgive me for sharing that I occasionally make mistakes in hands in an internet poker forum!

Ppl telling me to read books lol I actually played professionally from 2016-2018...ppl make mistakes sometimes, chill guys xD

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11-13-2020 , 10:57 AM

#36

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,748

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson

don't take it personally, sometimes things sound harsher on the internet.

glad to see poker will be alive and well with all this misinformation out there on the net.

hands like this are only profitable if played correctly post flop.
also you need a read on your opponents.
can fully understand why it caught you off guard and everyone is hammering me because apparently I'm one of the few who thinks of this playing out before hand.

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11-13-2020 , 12:03 PM

#37

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,055

85s is a standard open on the BTN - You want to steal the blinds and your hand plays fine vs a call.

I'm even wider than the guy that made that spread, although that one is a pretty good key.

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11-13-2020 , 02:44 PM

#38

RalphWaldoEmerson

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

haha the classic "insult someone then blame them for taking it too personally" line.
But tbf I did mention I showed my hand which is admittedly a noob thing to do so I understand why ppl reacted how they did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

85s is a standard open on the BTN - You want to steal the blinds and your hand plays fine vs a call.

I'm even wider than the guy that made that spread, although that one is a pretty good key.

Yeah same, snowman would be truly horrified

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11-13-2020 , 03:59 PM

#39

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,748

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson

for the record
look back at my posts
I stated I would have beaten V into the pot with my chips .
I would open with this in some games and in others its an easy fold pre;
as in most cases it depends on the line-up.
.
to say its standard is just burning money.
just look at OP post
V jams; is this standard ?

my point was OP states V aggro with any equity so we should prep for aggression; had we done so we wouldn't be caught off guard.

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