Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Massive pot, line check Massive pot, line check

10-24-2010 , 05:31 PM
Fallsview casino 2/5 NL

I'm sitting on approx 1400 and villain easily covers.

Hand went as follows (my thoughts and reads will be in brackets):

Note: Dollar amounts may be off by a few dollars but not enough to change the hand)

Villain in LP raises to 30 after 3-4 limpers
(Villain has been raising in position constantly, he seems to be fairly competent, certainly understands position, and has been creative in some spots)

Folded to
Hero in BB with AsQc re-raise to 90
(As I say above, this is CONSTANT with Villain, he just raises almost any two it seems like, so I decide I'm very likely ahead of his range)

Villain calls. (uh-oh)

Flop
QsJc4s

I lead for 125 and Villain calls behind

Turn:
3s

I call out 'same bet' (125)

(I feel like I've bloated the pot already, not happy with this bet, but I felt a bit over my head here.)

Villain fairly quickly raises to 525.

(I tank, and remember I have a Spade so I have a redraw and look again to see if it is the nut. At first I thought it was a fold but I did think this player would have a range like the following: KQ+, QJ, 44, 33's, some flushes are in his range but I haven't seen him get out of line pre-flop with suited connectors so I thought they were less likely. I also thought 4's were unlikely as the flop texture was draw heavy that he would want to raise for protection on the flop.

So I consider 1pair/2pair hands are most likely with 33 next likely, plus a few bluffs)

(I realize that calling is probably the worst option because if I hit the flush, I'm not getting paid and if I miss I can't call a river bet.)

So I shove for 602 more.

Villain tanks (I don't see him tanking with a flush and figure he'd make a quick crying call with a weak flush) and says "You wouldn't do that with the As would you?"

Villain calls.

River doesn't matter as all the money is in.

How's my line?
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 05:42 PM
I don't like the 3bet pre but it really depends if villain is calling 3bets IP light or not. Judging by your "uh-oh" statement he wasn't. 3betting because you're likely ahead of his range is flawed logic and you have to think of the type of hands he will call you with, because if it's only hands that beat you then you're turning a great hand into a bluff preflop. If he is however calling 3bets light IP then good 3bet.

Flop c-bet is good.

Turn I don't like at all. Your bet wreaks of weakness. I don't mind firing again on this turn but make it like ~300 or so. I also don't mind check/calling this turn because villain can easily try to represent the flush given his description. The shove is ew and you know he's pretty much pot committed at this point right? Along with that, your pair of queens is VERY rarely the best hand right here and you are most likely drawing to either 9 or 15 outs OTT (7 if he's already got a flush). No worse hand is calling your shove, and no better hand is folding.

PS: lol at thinking it's likely villain has 33
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 05:51 PM
Pretty much don't ever let the words "same bet" come out of your mouth again at a poker table.
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrifter
Pretty much don't ever let the words "same bet" come out of your mouth again at a poker table.
Agreed.
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman
I don't like the 3bet pre but it really depends if villain is calling 3bets IP light or not. Judging by your "uh-oh" statement he wasn't. 3betting because you're likely ahead of his range is flawed logic and you have to think of the type of hands he will call you with, because if it's only hands that beat you then you're turning a great hand into a bluff preflop. If he is however calling 3bets light IP then good 3bet.
I guess I don't understand this piece.

Why am I not trying to take down a pot like this pre-flop?

And if he's calling 3bets light, doesn't this hamper us from putting him on a range of hands?

Quote:
Turn I don't like at all. Your bet wreaks of weakness. I don't mind firing again on this turn but make it like ~300 or so. I also don't mind check/calling this turn because villain can easily try to represent the flush given his description. The shove is ew and you know he's pretty much pot committed at this point right? Along with that, your pair of queens is VERY rarely the best hand right here and you are most likely drawing to either 9 or 15 outs OTT (7 if he's already got a flush). No worse hand is calling your shove, and no better hand is folding.
Yeah, right after the words left my mouth I hated it.

As I said in the OP, I thought just calling the turn did 2 things, opened the door for him to bluff me on the river if a blank came, and if it didn't allowed him to get away without putting any more money in the pot.

I understood that I was likely behind on the turn, but thought I could get him to potentially fold out 1pair/2pair hands by raising. Maybe the stack sizes weren't deep enough for this logic. Plus I knew I had outs even if I was behind and was getting a good enough price if I had 12 outs (with make up if I hit after he called for the times I was way behind)

Quote:
PS: lol at thinking it's likely villain has 33
Actually I put him on 1 pair/2 pair hands with 33 being the next likely holding before 44 and flushes. So I honestly thought I had 12 clean outs (3 A's and 9 flushes)

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the help...
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 08:15 PM
Line checks are more effective if you don't post your action.

Obviously once we know he isn't folding, shoving wasn't a great play.
Massive pot, line check Quote
10-24-2010 , 10:02 PM
I actually don't mind the 3 bet and like it against this Guy.

Flop I c/c

As played a shoves bad unless you think he's spazzing alot with air.

And also as played I def don't lead turn again. So post flop IMO this hand is butchered.

I'd c/c flop c/c turn then read dependent c/c c/f river on a blank.

Seems people have trouble playing a 3 bet hand pre and progressing postflop with it. This is a hand and a flop we definitely don't want to go nuts with.
Massive pot, line check Quote

      
m