Live $3/$6 game.

Hero(HJ) :$2200
Villain(BTN) :$3000 (largest stack)

UTG+2, a tight reg raised to $18, I called in the HJ with 10 ♤ 8 ♤. Villain(BTN) called. Pot size preflop: $63.

Flop 8♡4♧6◇ rainbow. UTG+2 and hero checked, Villain bet $36, +2 called and hero check raised to $150. Villain tank called and +2 folded. Pot size on the flop: $400.

I know this is not a standard play with a weak top pair, but when UTG+2 just check called on a low connected board, given he raised in ep pf, I think his range is pretty capped to maybe some pairs like 77, 99 to JJ. I don't necessarily think my top pair is ahead of him, and it is very hard for my hand to improve or hang on in future street if I just call.

Regarding the btn the main villain, my initial read was that he was just taking a stab when checked to in position. I thought by check raising this Flop against two players including the pf raiser, I could very reasonably rep all the sets, 57, and two pairs like 86s 64s etc. I was expecting my raise to take down the pot, but to my surprise, the villain called with the utg+2 still to act. At this stage, I kind of put him on either trapping me with the hands I was representing(two pairs, sets, flopped straights), or he had open ender like 79, some pair and straight draws like 45,56,67,87 etc.


Turn came a 3♧, so the board is 8♡4♧6◇3♧. I bet $350, and the villain raised to $1000. I just don't think I can continue at this point, and I folded. The villain claimed he was making a play with a pair and straight draw afterwards, and he think I couldn't call with most of my range.


The point is, I think I could reasonably have all of the strongest hands on this board. In normal circumstances, I would never play a single pair this way. If the opponent really had a pair and straight draw, why would he not call in position to realize his equity? Did he really expect I would fold two pairs or set on the turn? On the flip side, why would he raise the turn if he crushed the board. He could totally wait till I either bluff again on the river, or I value own myself with a worse hand.

I know I have risked a lot of money unnecessarily with this play, but I just wonder if I got outplayed, or just ran straight into the top range of our opponent. Many thanks in advance for your kind advices.

If you think he has pair+gutshot, which is very likely since there are so many more combos of that than 2 pair/sets, I would just check the turn and let him hang himself. You know exactly where you are on what rivers, so you can safely fold or call. Betting turn denies equity, but allows him to blow up the pot by running a large bluff (assuming he told the truth about what he had).

There also might be a case for betting flop once preflop aggressor gives up on it, since almost every turn is bad for you. Don't think the check raise is terrible though

Probably fold preflop unless you can provide a good reason.

I would just bet flop when checked to you.

When you chose to check, and it went bet/call, then I would just overcall. Check-raising here is an overplay.

Thanks for your kind insight. I just thought a medium size suited one gappers at late position is a good calling candidate considering I'm quite deep. If I'm oop to the raiser I'll likely 3bet or fold.

My concern with overcalling on this board is, it is very hard for my specific hand to improve, and I have to probably check fold on the turn most of the time. I would normally not take this line with a hand as weak as this, but maybe my read on the hand strength of the btn is wrong.

The idea of just betting the flop once pf raiser checked didn't really cross my mind. That might be a better play. But as played, do you think he was telling the truth, or he just simply flopped a big hand, and want to get it in on the turn before the board became scary for me? like if the river complete a 4 card straight etc.

Poker players lie all the time about their actual hands. I know that I personally lie about what I had to manipulate my image. I also know that people have lied to my face about having the nut flush when I know that I had the nut flush blocker card in my hand.

Generally, you can't learn much about how you played a hand well or badly by talking to a Villain about what he had. You can't trust what they tell you after the hand is over.

Prefer to fold this hand pre in the HJ, facing a UTG2 raise.

Prefer either a bet on flop or just a check-call. A check raise wouldn't be terrible if we had a BDFD and there wasn't already three to a straight on board. Here, we're in a bad spot on most turns when the BTN calls.

We're trying to rep a hand we don't block, which is firmly in the BTN's range, and our story doesn't make sense. Why would we want to check raise a flopped straight or a set on this rainbow board? Why wouldn't we just lead out when the PFR checks to us?

If we're going to check raise this flop, I think we should go a little bigger, like $175 or even $200, with a plan to just shut it down if we don't improve on the turn. But again, I wouldn't check raise here with our hand.

After BTN bets flop and calls our raise, I'm just check-folding turn. We didn't improve, we don't beat much, and V wasn't scared of our check raise.

Yes, it's possible V just outplayed us, but it's unlikely he's betting flop, calling our check raise, and then raising turn with a worse hand when we barrel. More likely, we ran our bluff into a very strong hand, probably the nuts.

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Great analysis. thanks for that. Just wondering if I wasn't bluffing, and really had a set or two pairs, should I be stacking off at this spot with over 350 bb?

Fold preflop
End thread

Pre is OK, but I usually fold. If you can get paid if you hit gin, then it's fine. Bet the flop or check/call. The check/raise is so suspicious here. As played, I give up.

people can say they had anything. if he doesn't show you his cards why would you believe him. i think your hand combo isn't that good to bluff vs btn, would be better vs pfr where 8 / t can be somewhat safe outs and the ten is bad blocker / potentially very bad if u hit

You took an atrocious line for no reason. What he did/had is meaningless.

The bigger the SPR, the better the hand we need to stack off. This deep, we should be heavily weighted towards flopped straights, preferably with 75s of one of the three suits on board, or top set at the very least, before we look to get stacks in.

Against the UTG+2 raiser, stacking off with top 2 or a set might make sense on the flop, unless we know he's a wild player who will open UTG+2 with 75s and 66 or 44, in which case, we need top set or the straight, and preferably a backdoor flush draw to go with it, so that we're free-rolling against a chopped pot.

Even then - how often is UTG+2 going to stack off with an over-pair on this fairly dry low-middling board? Probably not too often. If he wants to get stacks in, it could be with the straight or top set. So stacking off vs UTG+2 with 88 is best. Stacking off with 66 or 44 is okay, but not great. Stacking off with 86, 84 or 64 are all kind of meh, because we can still get counterfeited, if we're not already losing to V's sets.

Stacking off with 2P or a set against the BTN is even more dicey. He can have all the straights, sets, and 2P here. If he's the type to slow-play his PP's in position pre flop, and then go broke on this flop, okay, but those guys are rare.

Stacking off on the 3c turn would be even more dicey. He shouldn't have much 52 there, but if he's calling with 52 pre, he's double-gutted on the flop, so he could stab and call your x-raise.

Your line is weird/fishy. When the UTG+2 PFR checks, we'd want to bet for value and protection if we have top pair or better. When we check-raise, we're repping 2P or better, but those are hands that would just bet out. The only bluff we have that is substantially improved by the 3 is 52. Are we really calling the UTG+2 raise pre, and check-raising this flop, with 52?

If V really did just have a pair + a draw, he actually made a good play.

Folding pre would be fine. Stabbing for a small size on the flop and folding to a raise would be fine. Check-raising 4x over the BTN's stab, and barreling for 3/4 pot on turn is just torching money.

Thank you everyone for your kind input. A lot of great analysis. Suffered from some fancy play syndrome on my part.