One thing I can assure you is the top 10/20 or 25/50 NL pros (or most good pros in general, at any stakes) are NOT using "pf charts", and the hand itt isn't a 6 Max 25/50 game full of pros. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Wrong again. Well known counterexample, to anyone who follows live poker streams: Art Papazyan, who is a famous 50/100 pro in LA, uses GTO opening charts.

This conversation is like arguing with a brick wall. I’m out.

Ok, see ya, best of luck to you and your GTO charts in your juicy live 2/5 games

Could you pls provide some sort of chart of which hands are/aren’t calling hands pre? Sounds like you have some sort of system that could be represented visually…

Cmon, live a little. No mans land is nice this time of year!

If we're heads up vs an initial raiser, we should of course be calling pocket pairs as long as we have enough setmining odds, and raising everything else instead of flatting to see a flop, unless his range is very narrow either due to his position or read on the player.

Our 3bet range changes from player to player, which is why we shouldn't use charts. There are too many variables in these decisions than to say "the chart says raise/call/whatever". Our 3betting range is also different depending on how often the player flats 3bets, or does he only 4b/f to them, etc. The more they flat pre to see flops, and fold to further action (fit or fold players) the lighter I'm gonna 3bet them, assuming their raising range is at least standard for their position.

Here are good 3betting hands vs a pfr

All premuims
AJ
AT
AQ
KQ
KJ
KT

When they seem to fold a lot to 3bets, or even flat them fold otf, you can go alil lighter to hands like

K9s
QJ
A9
A8
A6s, A7s, A8s, A9s

OTOH, if you have a multiway hand (any pocket pair, suited ace, suited broadways, SC's, or gappers, which play good in multiway pots, which are hands than can make the nuts and get paid off with), you should be flatting pre as long as there are at least 4 other players in the hand, (or sometimes 3 if they're bad players).

The main point is whenever someone raises pre, the first thing that you should think about is their range by taking into consideration their position and your read on the player, as well as how they respond to pressure both pre and post, when deciding what to do with hands like KJ.

that was a joke... but since you took the time to respond:

i think you misunderstand the utility of charts, they are guidelines for a default strategy when we dont have specific reads on a player. when we have reads/a sense of what their leaks are, we can and should deviate from our default strategy. in the hand here, our reads are basically just an estimate of his opening range and that he seems to be at least competent- this is more or less exactly when we should just be using our default strategy.

the reasons why people like using the charts for default strategies are pretty straightforward: in addition to premiums, when we 3b we want to have a variety of other hands that can interact with a range of boards, act as bluffs, etc., but we want to be mindful of our overall 3b frequency- charts offer an objective approach to which hands to select (many are close/similar) and in what proportions so that we can avoid 3 betting way more/less than we wanted (or be purposeful in doing so). similarly, they also offer an objective approach to which hands can be marginally called/folded vs an equally skilled villain (this is an imperfect proxy but is better than nothing).

needless to say i think your approach to (not) calling out of bb is way off, but ill leave it there and we can agree to disagree...

Yes, they're just a basic guidline for beginners, but when we clearly had enough info in the hand to deviate away from the chart, someone was stil arguing "but the chart says to defend"



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Lol it has nothing to do with beginners. No point engaging further, internet remains undefeated at the “will i waste my time?” game…