Pre-flop
Hero (700), AcJh in SB, 4 limpers.
Hero raises to $20, BB calls, 3 Limpers call.

Flop (100): Ah8s3s
Hero bets $85. BB (300) flat calls. Rest fold except BTN (200).

Turn (270): 2h

Hero All in?

As played yes. There are a lot of Ax hands and Ax of spades hands. I assume if you raise to $20 (6.5 BB) preflop and you have 4 callers, this game doesn't play like a typical 2/3 game, so 100 BB isn't a true 100 BB here.


But you could bet the flop smaller like $50 and keep the pot around $200-250 for the turn. Also, your bet of $85 with 4 ppl might look very scary, and ppl might fold hands like A7.

Your flop bet is too big, you want worse hands to call you. As played nothing to do but jam turn.

I think pot is 355.

You don’t have to iso this hand, good things can happen if you just complete.

H has 595 back. Pot, per OD, is 355. We can't bet something like 120-150 here, we have to shove if we bet?

If we're going to iso over 4 limpers, I think we need to go bigger than 6.5bb. Else we end up like this, OOP & bloating pot to ~7 SPR. 4+3+1 for OOP X 3 suggests 25 minimum, and I wouldn't mind 30, assuming we want to raise at all.

Probably betting 65 vs 85, but I'm not sure it matters much. AP, Vs should have big aces, spade draws, probably few to no heart draws after that flop bet. Plus 88/33 ofc.

We can b/f 120 or so here (or 1.5X overbet shove) and have 470 back with 600 ish in the pot, assuming only 1 caller. Blast off on any heart, A, J. We shouldn't have sets here besides AA, right?

I would either just complete in SB, which would be my preferred action as we just have a decent offsuit Ace out of position, or if we are going to raise you need to go bigger, probably 30.

Smaller on flop. As played just jam turn for protection and value.

You in Florida playing in the same game as me?

Agree with others saying flat call pre. Also agree our flop bet size is way too big. Disagree that we should jam now. I'd check and evaluate.

We bet 85% pot and got two callers. It's unlikely we're ahead of both. If we over-bet, we're probably folding out worse hands and only getting called by better.

There aren't very many worse hands we can target for value here. We could be up against bottom/middle set, or A8/A3.

We're basically hoping we're up against AT, A9, A7, A6, A5, or A4. Unless these guys are terrible, they should be folding all the off suit combos pre. They should only be continuing with the spade combos on the flop. They can't both have AXss.

If we jam, it's unlikely AT, 9, 7 or 6 will call. Maybe A5/A4 with the backdoor wheel draw will continue, but that's about it for hands we're beating.



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I would often just see a flop preflop.

I think our flop bet (and whether we should be betting at all against the world with this kicker) is far too big (especially against deeper stacks).

With these remaining stacks by the turn and most of the draws busting you could argue we're committed and should commit/shove. Overall I think the hand is overplayed though, but that's me.

GcluelessmediocrehandnoobG

What is BB's cold call range? Is it really tight or really loose?

If it's the latter this is good. It think it's still fine either way but probably just a lot closer if he can have AQ and AK in his range. I think I'd also ISO larger since there are so many limpers.

JFC, I would rather fold AJo in the SB versus a crowd than complete. But raising is even better, and I would make it at least 25 to go.

I would rather limp with AJs here ainec (for me) and raise off suite hands because the problem is the lower in stakes you go down such as 1/2, 1/3 and 2/3 more and more people l/c AQ and even AK (because they're "drawing hands").

Also we don't wanna bloat the pot so much by leading out for almost pot 5 ways with a medium strength hand, we wanna play medium sized pots not giant pots (especially multi way). I would either c/c-e or bet around 45. The BB has AK and AQ in his range which we block and he also has 88, 33, A8s and A3s as well as some draws. I don't think they're calling 85 into 100 with baby aces though.

It's unclear what the eff stacks are, does the BB have 300 behind ott or 215 (with the other guy having 115)?

Yeah, folding AJo from the SB pre is fine. Raising is okay, but we should probably raise bigger, multi-way, especially since we're bluffing. Make it $25 or $30, not $20.

First to act and OOP against two opponents, I'd check-call, not bet. But if we want to bet, I want to know why, and what we're trying to accomplish. This bet size doesn't seem likely to fold out better, only worse.

If we jam turn, again, what are we hoping to accomplish? Very few better hands are folding, very few worse hands are calling, and we're not dominating the most obvious candidates. We're facing the BB and the BTN - the two positions with the widest possible ranges pre.

We're crushed by 2P+, AK, and AQ. We only have 3 outs to improve over those hands. We're chopping with AJ. We're at best a 3:1 favorite over ATss, A9ss, A7ss, and A6ss. We're only 2:1 against A5ss/A4ss.

So there are maybe 6 combos we beat that we hope will stack off if we jam. There are ~25 combos that are salivating over the prospect of us jamming, and we have a ~6% chance of improving if we get snapped off.

We have to go down the rabbit hole to find combos of worse pairs or non-nut draws that were dumb enough to call pre and flop, and we're hoping would be dumb enough to call our jam.

Jeez, those are the effective stacks? Wow, yeah no bet besides shoving turn makes sense. Apologies, thought we were a lot deeper.

It's OOP against 4 opponents though

BB has 200 or 215 left and that makes spr around 0.6. Once we bet so large on flop we have to pile and see what happens. There is no room to check evaluate.

My bad. I was looking at the flop action, where just BB and BTN called our c-bet.

OOP against four opponents, even more reason to start by checking flop.

So let's simplify things:

1) We either fold or complete the preflop. Raise with a UTG opening range like AQ+. When you're OOP against the entire table, you need to tighten up your range.

2) If we decide to raise, we go bigger to $25-30.

3) Bet smaller on the flop.

4) As played, jam the turn.

I'll admit I overlooked the stack sizes of our V's at first. Seems like I miss more when I'm reading on my phone.

That said, before hero raises in the SB, there were four limpers, but we don't know their stack sizes. If the others at the table are generally short-stacked, I guess maybe we should be going smaller with our raise sizing, at least when we have value.

But AJo is a BS hand. 3B'ing it is bluffing. If we're bluffing, I'd think we'd want to take the pot down pre, and go bigger. We don't need to worry about balance in spots like this. Just raise bigger so we either take it down pre or at least winnow the field down.

We lost one limper, but picked up the BB, so...we accomplished nothing we wanted to by raising to $20. We're still 5 ways to the flop and OOP to everyone.

On the flop, it would help to know the other stack sizes, for the sake of thinking about our bet size. But either way, we're OOP to four V's. Just check, or if we want to bet, I think I'd rather over-bet the pot than take this odd 85% sizing, if the stack sizes are $200-$300. If we're going to commit to this bluff, then let's COMMIT!

Again, we were out of line raising pre. We were bluffing, but we actually flopped TP3K on a two-tone board. Let's not screw around giving our opponents good odds to chase their draws, or reason to hope that their other 1P BS might actually be best. Let's drop the hammer right here, and rep AK/AA, or just check and see what happens.

I don't hate a turn jam given the remaining stack depths, but...these two wing-nuts called an 85% flop c-bet, with the two widest pre-flop ranges. If we jam, what worse hands call?

Alternatively, if we just check, that doesn't mean we're folding if either of them jam. I think we're only folding if they both jam, and even then, I'm not sure, maybe we still call. If we think we're good here, maybe we should consider slowing down, faking weakness, and let one of these rocket scientists do the jamming for us?

Why do the pushing when the donkey will do the pulling?

There’s nothing left to do besides shoving the turn.

I would have went $25+ preflop, but as played would have started with a flop check. You didn’t really want BB’s cold call, so use your relative position and see what he wants to do when the PFR checks an A-hi flop. No reason to lead for $85 here unless you’re comfortable playing for stacks.

Agree on bigger pre-flop raise and check OTF oop. Thanks for the comments.
Results if interested.