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[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set [Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set

01-23-2022 , 11:54 AM
Live 1/3 NL home game. 7 handed, where the players are decent post-flop, but probably too splashy pre-flop and call happy at stakes this low for them.

Hero: approx 100 bb utg. Pretty tight image.

Villain 1: HJ , >100 bb, white man in his 60s, who has some bluffs and wider open ranges.

Villain 2: BB, >100 bb. mawg with super wide preflop range, and pretty stationy postflop.


Hero has 66.

Preflop

Hero bets 12, Lj folds, rest of the table calls.

Flop

6 K 9 rainbow, One club. Pot 70.

Blinds check, hero checks, Villain 1 in HJ bets 25, folds around to Villain 2 in bb who calls. Hero calls.

Turn

6K9, 9. Now 2 on the board. Pot 155.

BB checks.

Hero????
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 12:51 PM
If your goal is to get max value you need to start building a pot on the flop. Lead or check raise. There are merits to both. If you're ever checking AK, KK, AA into 4 other people here then a CR makes sense. If that's not something you'd do then just lead. A key to getting paid off is making your bluffs and misses look the same as your value hands when it comes to betting patterns. If I'm leading I'm making it $40. As played since you checked make it a full PSR of $170 when it gets back to you. You're either gonna scoop a nice pot immediately or get someone to make a huge mistake and commit themselves on the flop when you have a strangle hold on the hand and stack them for the max. This is the position you should be striving to constantly put your opponents in when you're playing NLH. If you want to get the max you can't just call here.

As played when you get checked to on the turn bet $100. If you get called you can easily get the rest in on the river. This bet puts a lot of pressure on anyone with a K that thinks they have to be good in this spot and sticky opponents that have picked up a back door flush draw and are starting to feel committed to to the idea of "this is my chance to win a big pot". Pressure and the dangling carrot of the potential of winning a big pot is what gets people to spaz out and make mistakes at this level. You must build big pots and apply pressure if you're trying to win the max consistently.

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[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 01:29 PM
Noob perspective:

As played, I would lead the turn and not give V1 an opportunity to check back. If they were bluffing and got caught by 2 callers, they might just give up and check, which would then also let V2 get off easy when V2 might otherwise call a bet. And if either of them is on a draw, and the draws miss, then you're almost certainly not getting value on the river unless you catch a bluff.

I would bet somewhere around 80. You'd get calls from any 9x, most Kx, and likely even flush or straight draws.

I probably would have check/raised flop, in fact. Once you've already gotten a bet and a call in front of you, a small raise to 60-70 probably keeps one or both of them in the hand, and then you're off to the races on the turn.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 04:56 PM
Bet flop, AP now bet. Consider folding pre.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 05:24 PM
Raise flop. Bet turn as played.

Your objective is to get the maximum % of your stack in as possible.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 06:24 PM
You should bet this flop. When an EP raiser doesn't bet flop and doesn't check/fold flop their range becomes pretty pinned at draws or big made hands. There are not really any draws or two pair so your range becomes set heavy. Competent villains are likely to be suspicious and slow down just when you want to get your entire stack in. Plus with the king on the board villains' calling ranges become inelastic. Either they have a hand good enough to call or they are done with the hand. On a wetter board going for a flop check/raise can be a good idea but there are not enough good draws on this flop.

As played bet turn. $100 looks good because getting money from draws on the turn is your main goal. Yes it can fold out some single pairs that might bet or call on river but you need to charge potential draws on the turn. Checking turn really cuts into your average EV.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 06:47 PM
Lead flop for at least 50

And just hope some Kx QT K9 wants to put a lot of money in

On the turn hopefully no one has K9 and bet again at least 1/2 pot
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 07:59 PM
With the hand effectively on lock down I like $85ish.

And like everyone said either lead or c/r the flop. Flatting $25 3 ways is bad.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-23-2022 , 11:11 PM
Need to lead out on the flop for $40-50. You have 5 opponents and two have already checked. No K nor OESD is going to fold to one bet. No reason to give various gutshot straight draws a free card. Since you checked, a bet of $25 and a call, you have to raise to $100 and GII on the next card.

Great turn card, pot is $145 and Hero has about $267 behind. Bet $100.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-24-2022 , 02:15 PM
Well checking flop is really bad. Like really really really really bad.

We have bottom set which means we don't block top and middle pair at all. Bet 1/3 or even 1/2 pot. Then bet all turns 3/4 pot and jam basically all rivers.

You get max value by going bet/bet/bet not by getting fancy and checking
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-24-2022 , 02:36 PM
I fold preflop but I'm a nit. Otherwise I'd prefer a limp, but I guess this is just a pot juicer at a loose non-3betty table?

SPR is 4 and board is pretty drawless, so I guess I don't despise a check since even if it checks thru we could still play for stacks on later streets (although it would require 2 large PSBs). I would prefer a small cbet though and just bet/bet/bet for stacks. As played, I'm also just calling (not risking a check/raise to blow people off their junk).

I donk the turn. This card is both good and bad. It's awesome if someone has it as we'll get paid off. But it's pretty craptastic if no one has it cuz now it looks like we do. But still, I can't risk the turn checking thru or else I won't be able to play for stacks. Plus the board is a little more drawy and there are more hands that will pay off. I'd probably bet on the small side, nothing more than 1/2 PSB.

GcluelessNLnoobG
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-30-2022 , 02:02 PM
fold pre, you need TT here minimum to open IMO
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-30-2022 , 09:50 PM
How did we get from "getting max value" to just calling a 1/3 pot flop bet in a multiway pot when we flop huge?

Raise FFS. Next street please.

LOL at needing TT+ to open at a home game. Do you want to be invited back?
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
01-31-2022 , 09:21 AM
Easy… bet bet bet
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote
02-01-2022 , 10:14 AM
Lead the turn for about 65-80. Charge draws, get full value from 9x. Still small enough to get most Kx to call.
[Low]1/3 - getting max value from flopped bottom set Quote

      
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