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Long Ball: Large Bet sizing in loose games Long Ball: Large Bet sizing in loose games

02-11-2015 , 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpep
I Dont get your point.. If a tag is pf raising & keep betting wrong flops... Anyone will be able to understand what he is doing.. And people starts floating on wet flops and donk bet on turn... If friends are at the table, then they start raising & reraising each other on the flop itself with absolute air.. I don't think you need to be good at poker to do this..

Now, let say a decent player is sitting on his left and is floating.. How is hero going to adjust?.. Coz he Dont know if he will call or fold.. What if multiple decent players are at the table.. Some times if the higher table is not available good players simply sit down at low stakes to kill time.. Unless he balance his range, he is in for a tough sessions..
Multiple decent players at the table in a low stakes game? I almost never see anybody play decent in these games. And these guys aren't going to be floating much. They will tend to play fit or fold on the flop.

And a lot of those players do not understand what TAG players do. They think TAG players are just nits, unless the TAG player is on a decent run of cards. Then they might think the TAG player is a decent player.

You are greatly overestimating the average low stakes plalyer. Those players play a certain way, stick to it, and often won't pay much attention to the rest of the table.
Long Ball: Large Bet sizing in loose games Quote
02-11-2015 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
When the over pair does hold up or you spike tptk, the pay off is larger, but it comes with the trade off introducing at lot of variance to your game. Other than AA, the other top 3 hands (KK, QQ, AK) typically have a win rate lower than 50% against 3 random hands. JJ and AQ are even worse multi-way. So my basic premise is bet large enough preflop to ensure everyone folds preflop or that you have 1 caller, at which point you can often take the pot away with a large C-bet on the flop when you miss and do not hold an over pair. For the most part you make a small consistent profit, until someone makes a mistake and stacks off with the worst hand.
There is way too much of an emphasis here on avoiding variance and winning a high percentage of hands when you play. Cbetting a pot sized bet is too much. I find betting around half the pot to be effective, especially when my pf raise sizes are already bigger than the raises from anyone else at the table.

What do you do when you have pocket pairs and suited connectors? Do you try to win as close to 100% of pots as you can every time you have those hands? I know I don't. I don't even think that way at the table. So I wouldn't think the same way when I have JJ which is even better in multiway pots than lower pairs when I flop a set. And I disagree with your suggestion that JJ is bad in multiway pots. Even AQ is a great hand to have in multiway pots when it's suited.

It seems like you want to play the way you do because of fear. I don't think the style you describe I'd nearly as bad as the reasoning you're giving for playing that style.

If you really want to win every time you have AA, just shove with it every time you get it pf and you'll get fewer bad beats and win almost every time with it. But then you will be forcing your opponents to play correct more often and they will make fewer mistakes.

Last edited by Steve00007; 02-11-2015 at 07:10 PM.
Long Ball: Large Bet sizing in loose games Quote
02-11-2015 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpep
I Dont get your point.. If a tag is pf raising & keep betting wrong flops... Anyone will be able to understand what he is doing.. And people starts floating on wet flops and donk bet on turn... If friends are at the table, then they start raising & reraising each other on the flop itself with absolute air.. I don't think you need to be good at poker to do this..

Now, let say a decent player is sitting on his left and is floating.. How is hero going to adjust?.. Coz he Dont know if he will call or fold.. What if multiple decent players are at the table.. Some times if the higher table is not available good players simply sit down at low stakes to kill time.. Unless he balance his range, he is in for a tough sessions..
By "You don't see many players like this" I mean there are not many players in small stakes Vegas games where you need to make a strong effort to balance your play. Furthermore, "balancing your play" is much more important in online games where many villains are capable of datamining your history. If you don't balance there, you will be abused.
But most small stakes Vegas players don't really have a good idea of what we are doing. If a higher-stakes sits down for a few hands while waiting for his table, balancing makes no sense to me. Do we expect the villain to remember what we do the next time he sees us?
There are some regulars, however, who are strong enough to see our big-picture exploitive strategy and may be able to abuse us. In that case, we adapt.
Long Ball: Large Bet sizing in loose games Quote

      
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