loose game....
all villains have around 700 in chips, I cover

I get kk in ep and open for 40

3 callers
567 flop rainow

i decide to just check it, checks around

turn is a J

i bet 125, one loose/thinking player takes longer than he usually does and thinks about it for a little bit, then calls

headsup to the river which is a 9

i bet 175 planning to fold to a raise (villain did not strike me as aggressive/bluffy tight... he usually plays 1/2)

thoughts on all streets welcome, but was really looking for feedback mostly on my bet fold river decision

Well. Nice post. I have problems with that hands very often. Mostly because of the potcontrol, thats why i like the flop check. Otherwise dont we want to reduce the field and sort out the aces? Check my post in this forum, the KK hand please.

i meant aggressive bluffy type

The problem is your line looks like a bluff. What do you think his hand range is when he calls turn? Obv you're hoping for Jx, but that river hits a ton of the junk hands you were afraid of (because you checked the flop).

I bet the flop, and see where it goes from there. You have one opponent that is stationy and not the bluffy type, so why check the flop? You can get a better sense of if that flop helped him or not.

The river does bring a tough decision....c/f seems very weak and every time I b/f in this spot I always feel like I'm burning money. I find myself doing it a lot just because I don't want to have to make tough river calls like this. I might call a reasonable bet if I can pick something up on him, but now that I think about it I probably give it up.

Interested to hear other opinions, too.

if my river bet looks like a bluff that is good.... he wasn't the only opponent in the hand,otherwise i would not have checked the flop.... one villain was overly lag... and one villain was super mega loose donk that could do anything at any time

I don't like the preflop bet. 8x the bb? Your hand is face-up and that is a good way to get stacked by smart players with better position.

I would lead the flop and probably try to check it down after that depending on the action.

You should have checked the river and folded to any bet over like 1/3 the pot. You can never bet this river after previous action. The 9 completed the high end of the straight draw. All your bet does is push out garbage hands that would have probably checked behind. You may get bluffed off the pot a small percentage of the time, but villain may even check trips on the river since the 9 is such a scary card for this board.

You river bet doesn't look like a bluff. It is a bluff and that is bad. You are rarely getting called by worse hands on this board. Your betting into straights, trips, or 2 pair 90% of the time.

[QUOTE=Always Chipping Up;6476797]I don't like the preflop bet. 8x the bb? Your hand is face-up and that is a good way to get stacked by smart players with better position.

QUOTE]


i wasn't playing with any smart players... if i make it any less good chance i have 7 callers

do you play live?

this guy can have j10 and up....

[QUOTE=onlinebeginner;6479764] I know that if you make it like $15 or $20 that alot of people will tag along, but you just lose so much by betting big pairs like this and playing other hands smaller. Your too deep to be giving off betting patterns like this. If anyone at the table is a thinking player they can call pre with ATC and stack you by getting almost 20:1 implied odds on their money.

so you don't play live....?

They don't play live. A lot of the time, 8x is just a standard raise due to the limping and such.

I take the same line except probably c/f'ing river rather than b/f'ing it. Villains range of hands that he could realistically have while beating us is just too wide for me to comfortably bet the river. But maybe im just a nit.

[QUOTE=Always Chipping Up;6480098] I think you're making some assumptions here about OP that weren't stated/implied such as:

1. OP would only raise to 8x with big pocket pairs
2. OP couldn't possibly lay down a big pocket pair on a scary board facing some heat
3. OP doesn't know his opponents or watch their tendencies (both pre-flop & post-flop)

If you have what you know to be best hand pre-flop, can raise to 8x AND get called in a couple places...why not? Assuming you can lay down KK if you feel your beaten and not automatically give the 20:1 implied odds to anyone willing to call your pre-flop overbet....

Could you explain your reasoning behind the flop check?

Your line post flop appears pretty timid.

If I were villain, I would pretty much raise ATC thinking I can rep the straight on the river. Only a slim part of your likely range could call me here.

two of the villains were not good loose agressive players... one was just meh... one was horrible and randomly put his chips in the pot

i don't want to fold to one of their raises because it would commit me... that board is really draw heavy, plus theres a decent chance one of the villains hit their set or two pair... plus if i raise out that flop i have either an overpair or ace kind... if i check it my hand is no longer face up

your reffering to my bet/fold river decision?... this guy is not agressive or good

to prove my read: he had A8 and just called my river bet

i just really feel like a J is a huge part of his range... i guess j8 and j9 *** me up on the river making my bet bad, but still j10+ is definately in his range... and he'd call my bet because it looks like i'm potentially bluffing at the straight

in most live games i've played in a 6-8BB open is standard

If Villain isn't aggressive and makes loose calls I like b/f, though I probably make it $150 instead of $175.

If Villain is typically loose but is playing tighter and/or more passive than normal because he usually plays $1/2, then I prefer c/f.

I think you should bet the flop, because you have an overpair. An overpair is a good hand. However, as the flop contains connected cards, many draws are out there.

As played, the only thing I would do on the river would be to bet bigger. This reduces the bluff-raise chance.

Which means it is correct? I think 3x-5x is just fine, especially if your talking about pot control. Pot control just doesn't start post flop in a really loose live game.

I think that Pocket Kings is a good hand preflop. It is okay to get money into the pot preflop when you have a good hand like Pocket Kings.

yeah I hate getting bad players to put in more than they should with weak holdings with deepish stacks when I have KK

nothing wrong the the raise prelfop esp if villians are calling with weak hands which I assume they are if OP thinks hands like J8s etc are in their range.

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