Hello,

this question is targeted towards live players, who regularly play in a game with the same pros/regs and different fish. I would assume a lot of live games are like that. I'm interested in the dynamics of such games.

Over time you get to know your fellow regs very well. How much of your winnings come from exploiting regs, and how much from exploiting fish? Do the regs in these games develop some kind of mutual understanding where they will softplay each other in certain spots and play "together" against the fish, without verbally agreeing about it?

Exploiting huge fish often requires to play very unbalanced. I have noticed a lot of live regulars do that and they make good money, so they don't care. I would think a lot of money can be made from those regs as well. How important is studying other regs games for you? For example, do you write down notes on certain players or hands they have shown down? Does it make sense to try and pay attention to the way they tend to exploit the fish and how that in turn opens the reg up for exploitation? For example, one player tends to notice a certain type of leak in a fish and always does the same thing to try and take advantage of it. Does it make sense to analyze how each reg tries to exploit fish specifically, rather than just looking at their overall game?

I hope I could express myself well enough in english. This may seem like a trivial question to you. I have only played online, and just recently played more live. The dynamics are totally different, and I'm interested in anything you guys have to say about that.

A lot of regs are fish. If they are playing an exploitable game, then you exploit them.

A non-trivial amount of winnings comes from regs. While it is great when a huge whale comes to your table and donates lots of money, most of the time you're up against regs and have to beat them to make your day in/day out winnings.

As a personal belief, I think poker is a lot like business. If you are the top player at your table, you'll win lots of money. If you are #2, you'll win some, but not a lot of money. Below that, you'll be breakeven or worse.

this

/thread

a lot of low stakes live regs are nits. they often make money because clueless whales always pay them even if when they hold the most obvious nuts.

bluff the reg nits a couple of times when the whale is at the table. Make sure to show the bluff. Only value-bet against the whales. Enjoy the $$

In the games I play, there isnt an understanding between regs, but there is history.

They know I will raise w/ most hands, but I wont 3-4 bet too often. Against player A, I will 3 bet w/ these 5 hands and fold all others, never call. Against player B, I will frequently call raises and not reraise too often.

Given this info, most hands play themselves out. Now, if you throw in a player with no history, he sees me 4 bet 2 loose players w/ AQ and thinks that I am playing crazy. So when I 3 bet the tightest player in the game everyone knows I have AA KK QQ, but the rookie gets fooled into 4 betting and faces a cap w/ just AK.


This is why new players or experience players in a new game frequently feel lost. It is harder to make proper reads and they quickly get ground down to the felt.

I am unaware of any live pro's that play "soft", or have some "understanding", against anyone -including other regular players -pro or otherwise.

Poker is a solo sport, you can be a really *nice* "person", but at the table you need to tough, assertive, and aggresive at times. Make the very most you can for yourself anytime you can.

That said, I think you may be bluring the lines between respect and caution. A regular thats playing today, and will play tommarow, and the next day, and next week and next month....in cash games -generally has little interest in getting in marginal situations for large amounts of money. More times than not a well discplined and long term succesful regular will simply throw the hand away....afterall, they got tomarow, and the next day, and next week, ect.
Now someone on vacation that only has 3-6 days to play is more apt to push the limits a little more. They are more apt to get into major confortations w/ marginal holdings for large amounts of money.

When you see two reg's at the same table fold, when another reg has a fish (call this player a fish, tourist, rec player, or whatever) on the hook, don't be fooled into thinking its because of some mutual respect thing. More times that not its strictly business.

A place I play sometimes seems to be mostly regulars who play sugar with each other. They almost always check it down after the flop, and they always run it two times if they somehow end up all in (not that this is necessarily soft-playing).

I never agree to check it down, and I only ever run it once.

They generally do not seem to like me. But I'm a winning player there.

I guess it depends what you are after.

This +100000

only value bet against whales wut?

I believe he meant "show bluffs vs the reg nits then don't bluff vs the whales."

So your poker strategy is to cooler randoms,brillaint.sounds like you're playing optimally.

exploit everyone.

I gotta agree with Venice.

If you are #1 @ your table you should be quite profitable
#2 somewhat but it really depends on your position vs #1. If he is on your left I would say break even at best even losing if he is targeting you and knows how to abuse you. All it takes is the better player on the left to screw up 1 hand per hour to kill your winrate.

I only play 1/2. I know I am quite capable of playing 2/5 but no BR.

From my experience most live player are bad.
The regs that play are also bad.
Some are nitty.
Some call too much on the river (and thus are just tight fish)
Some I have met surprisingly know their stuff... but tilt too much.
Other regs are very loose aggressive and look like they play well... untill you put too much money in the pot with a bad hand or bad bluff vs a loose passive.

I think most regs give off a lot of tells. About 1/2 dont take their time either to think a hand.

And more than not they tilt when they see a play which they cant comprehend.

Just make the decision with the highest EV at all times and don't worry about where all the money is coming from, just stack it till it gets sky high.

Reg does not = good player
Reg does not = good player
Reg does not = good player
Reg does not = good player
Reg does not = good player
Reg does not = good player

It means they show up. Most "regs" think they are fantastic players, but their entire profit comes from idiots paying them off in terrible spots. Yes. Exploit them. The fact that you play with them alot (because they are regulars), means you should understand their game more.

They leave so much money on the table and betsize horribly.

BTW one thing that helps someone not to be "that reg" that frequents the live games is to stop thinking of one's self as good. Just play and exploit the weaknesses of your opponents.

Once you remove your ego from the game its a lot easier to play.

I see a lot of players that play 5+ times a week, and they exhibit all these signs. Frequently will call two or three to the face with AA KK QQ on coordinated boards where they are obviously beat. Cant find the fold button when AK/Aq bricks in a multi-way pot and other, mostly passive, traits.

People play live for many reasons, not everyone wants to be a "pro" and make the correct play all the time. most of the regs are just looking for something to do, ya we all want to win money, but most people dont over time. The only guaranteed winner is the house.

"Slow playing is cheating" DN

At home almost everyone in the 15/30 and 30/60 games knows each other and play together on a regular basis but just to see them there doesent say anything about profitability so play to win, for yourself, no one is going to give you back the money they took from you. Just use the fact that they are regs to understand their game more.

I play regularly in a large card room, and I travel a lot and play all over the country. In my experience over the last several years, even after the boom cooled (and I'm only a pretty good -- not great -- player), it only takes 3-4 weak players at the table and some solid play to win consistently, even against regs who play every day. Maybe I'm better than I thought I was?

soft playing other regs is downright cheating. It's called collusion and is illegal and I have a lot less respect for people who have to collude to make their money.

When you come to the conclusion that many regs are fish (the terms are not mutually exclusive), your winrate will improve noticeably. I wish I had realized this years ago.

Great question – thank you to the original poster. Each game is different but generally speaking at lowish stakes live regulars aren’t that good. I’ve played for 3yrs, 18mths, seriously, I've thought several times who is no.1 at my local game and it's probably me, I’m certainly in the top 3 and although I respect the other two I don’t fear them, but yes…..it’s much better if I have position on these players. Also this is from a pool of about 40 to 50 players (usually one table or two maximum)

What tends to happen is that we (the good regs.) don’t get involved in that many pots with each other, as there is much better value out there against other regulars and weaker/fishy players – we also swap information to get consensus on new players so we can adjust correctly.

In my experience whether regular or not, most people know how to play poker and recognise different playing styles but don’t adjust properly or see changes in table dynamics as new players enter and leave.

But yes I do write notes down on the regular players, I also have to adjust my own game against these people and think of new ways to deceive them, because they are also adjusting to me. One particular player (the no.2) is a thoughtful player, pretty good at hand analysis and I find it difficult to beat him if I’m to his immediate right.
Re getting the stacks in and getting value NO, there is no way these tighter regular players are getting in there stack on a bluff or marginal hand (particularly as we are deep stacked so sometimes 500BB plus) but…..a lot of the regulars do loosen up when fish arrive or later in the evening

Another key is to be observant of other regs. and see how there evening is going, some are more prawn to tilt, others have a period of tilt, this def. makes a difference in terms of getting value out of them – if I’m in a pot with a regular, I really want to apply as much pressure to his stack as possible. Also all regulars have weak tendencies, through time if you are paying attention, you need to exploit these weaknesses and plan hands in advance for maximum value

Everybody is exploitable and even the best players make mistakes – my best advice is to analyze your own mistakes when you get back home and put a lot of work into adjusting to other players styles (and changes in table conditions) and do a considerable amount of hand analysis – if you know what you have and you know your opponents very likely hand, maximizing gets to it’s optimum level - also I've learnt to avoid dangerous/marginal situations. I can throw my hand away or seriously slow down, as I know there will be better spots later and plenty of opportunity to make lots of $$, when I KNOW I'm way ahead.

I don’t check it down against anyone or run it more than once, unless I’ve made some huge error and feel like I’m way behind. Also I never show cards if it’s a table full of regs. (but if there are several fish, then I’m showing my bluffs to create a loose image)
Hope this is of use - final word, you are never as good as you think you are when you're winning and never as bad as you think you are when losing !

S.

I lovde exploiting regs. Most of them are laughable bad... But its painful if you don't have cards running your way, or if reg play is to limp stack people. You need hands if you want to play on their level. Don't suggest playing on their level and instead just collect from them.

In many ways they are the table hoe. They gather the money whichever way they gather it, and you, being the better player are the table pimp

Exploiting fish vs beating regs is the same thing. You adjust your play to how your opponent is playing. Most regs in my games are fish anyway, just not huge ones. You learn which ones are wedded to their draws and overpairs and how they play certain types of hands. Most regs have very predictable styles. I have "notes" on many of them although I guess I never wrote anything down.

If you can find someone who varies their preflop raise sizes predictably then you have an easy exploit. One example I have is a guy who plays every day during the week for 6 hours. His preflop raising range: 3x = QJ/KT like hands, 5x = AQ, AJ, AT and sometimes AK but *never* a pocket pair. 7x = JJ+ and occasionally 99/TT, and AK. He never folds to 3 bets when he raises 5x or 7x. Imagine sitting to this guy's left, seeing him raise to 5x and now knowing you are going to abuse him over and over. Having played with him a ton, I know he's a little worse than breakeven (he told me his stats). The only thing I have to be careful of is not cluing him in to what I'm doing by doing it too often.

Start by paying attention to one reg for an hour or so. Might seem boring at first but when you have sick lines on players and torture them it makes the effort invested worth it.

like it~~~

There are alot of very terrible regs who play every day. I do not soft play these regs and they provide alot of my profit. The few good regs tend to avoid playing pots with each other but dont softplay each other. The regs who really softplay are the middle aged/old white guys who are just rich ppl who are playing recreationally who are actually legitimatly friends with the other regs.