Ok, so my question is how does everyone play with a table of all calling stations at a low limit game in a casino?

when i play in the lower limit games you usually have 1-2 tight players at the table one being me.

Doesnt matter if i raise 15xbb or 3xbb im getting callers, and of course you dont try to bluff them , so i wait for my AA , KK, QQ, JJ, ,10 10, 99, and try to scoop a big pot, but i have the worst luck with it because its still just a pair, so with a few callers pairs lose alot of value.

i end up waiting 3 hours for AA to get them cracked and lose a good portion of my stack.

so i guess my question is, is waiting for big hands and trying to come away with a big pot the better approach?

Or is playing more hands when facing raises better? ex : suited connectors the J10, j9, Q9, etc?

Play pots in position, open up your range while in late position in limped pots.

Isolate the fish.

Value bet to your hearts content.

So long as everyone at the table isn't shortstacked, you shouldn't be sitting around for 3 hours waiting for AA. Your goal, IMO, is to get into pots for cheap in position with speculative hands, hit a great hand, and stack someone who can't fold. I would be limping in LP behind multiple limpers at a non-aggressive table with a wide range of hands trying to accomplish this. Obviously raise our good hands preflop and try to select a raise size that is going to limit the field.

HOC even mentions how a lotta noob players in non-shortstack games think "I'm just going to play correct by playing super tight preflop" when in fact that is actually a mistake at most low limit tables. Doesn't give us an excuse to play ATC from any position, but we shouldn't be playing 1 hand an hour unless we are super card dead / table conditions are bad.

read books or better watch bart hansen's videos and listen to his podcasts.reading your post,i am pretty sure you have many leaks in your game.you need to study,imo.

OP. Your post is good, it shows your thought process and how you approach the game. The bad thing is your view of the game is a little off. You will need to change the way think about the game in order to start kaboom smashing llsnl.

You are most likely about 6 months away from this. Its pretty much about studying and applying, but there is a lot of bad information out there (by there I mean here) so be careful.

For now... Focus less on your actual hand, and more on what you believe your opponents perceive your hand to be. Its called perceived range. Then put your opponent on a range. A way you can do that is "tag" how they are playing, and factor that against what their action is, what their position is, and the board texture.


What types of raises are you facing? There is a something they call the 10x 20x rule that people like.

The rule is, we should be able to make 10x the raise size from total pot when setmining. 20x when calling with suited connectors, and 30x when calling with gapped suited connectors.

The idea behind it (I guess) is to try and evaluate how much we stand to win If we hit a big hand. It takes into account the percent chance of hitting, winning at showdown, and whatever fold equity we may have in given situation.

A handful of my standards:

1. Have a broad range of RIO hands while in early position. If I wake up UTG to AJo, KQo, KJs, or KTs, I'm folding almost always. KJo on a Kxxr board when facing flop and turn bets? I need a very good reason not to muck.

2. The abundance of 1st level calling stations in LLSNL makes folding out better a difficult proposition. As such, bluff less and float never. Or close to never.

3. Slow-play almost never. If I flop the nut flush while in early position, I'm opening, often raising the open, and I may be bet/raising. 99% of LLSNL players can't fathom playing the nuts so fast. They will rarely give you credit for your monster. This may be the point most appropriate for OP.

4. Do not expect a 3-bet from QQ, JJ, TT, or AKs. If you 2-bet TT pre-flop and get raised on a 9-high uncoordinated board, you're rarely good.

5. Have stronger pre-flop calling standards from the small blind, regardless of whether there is a raise.

play nitty in ep 1010+, Ak,AQs, mp 99+ Ak, AQ,AJs, in lp 88+,AK,AQ,AJ,A10s,KQ,KJs, QJs, work with that range. For about a 100 hours. Once you adjust to a positional game plan you can expand your range in lp. Position is the most important, you want to see how your opponents act first. Being last to act is the most powerful weapon in poker.

These, in particular. I limp Axs a lot as well as connectors from LP because your implied odds are unbelievable in these games.

10x for setmining seems way too small when you factor in the number of times we hit and don't get paid off / end up losing a lot of chips to a better hand. I think most would rather use the 5/10 rule: if it's for less than 5% of effective stack (i.e. >=20x), easy call; if it's for more than 10% (i.e. <=10x), easy fold; in between, it depends on number of players, quality of players, our position, etc. I'm guessing the 5/10 rule could pretty much be used for all speculative hands (i.e. not just setmining pairs) but I could be wrong.

I know, I've heard it argued 8 ways from sunday... Yeah the 5/10 rule is good.. All of these should be considered more as a rule of thumb, and not taken so seriously imo

Thanks for the replys,

i feel its so hard to put low limit players(live) on a single hand simply because
there range can be so big, there is too many hands they could possibly have.

For instance, i see a guy call a raise and re raise with J 10o and mark that in my head lol,

So i figure his opening range has to be HUGE so when he raises, so i play a pot with him when he raises and lets say i have pocket 8s on a 2 7 4 rainbow board, i raise he re reraises and because i think hes range is so big i feel he might think hes good with top pair here , so i call hand goes on and he'll have AA or KK.

Then ill play with him again, this time i give him a little more respect and ill make a tough fold with maybe top pair top kicker and he'll show like 8 3o and flopped two pair or something haha.

idk thats kinda what i se alot of at the 1/2 nl games, so putting them on hands is alot more difficult i guess, so i feel when im given that r ight pot odds to call with there is a raise out there or not i should sometimes call with suited connentors just to hit a big flop and get paid off by a lesser hand that they wont fold. Gotta love poker right?

if people are calling all sorts of crap, raising 99+ only is freaking dumb. Raise AT, KQ, KJ, etc, valuebet, ezmoney.

If you are trying to fix your hand reading, this is a good place to start. If I'm trying to figure out what's going on in a hand, I often look for things that are out of the ordinary for my opponent.

In this case, you have your opponent pegged as someone who calls with a super-wide range. In other words he's very passive. When a passive player suddenly becomes aggressive, that's out of the ordinary for him and usually (in my experience) says "Watch out, this time it's a real hand".

[QUOTE=Schadenfred;30013424]A handful of my standards:

1. Have a broad range of RIO hands while in early position. If I wake up UTG to AJo, KQo, KJs, or KTs, I'm folding almost always. KJo on a Kxxr board when facing flop and turn bets? I need a very good reason not to muck.

2. The abundance of 1st level calling stations in LLSNL makes folding out better a difficult proposition. As such, bluff less and float never. Or close to never.

[QUOTE]

Don't these two contradict itself?

You say it doesn't matter if you raise 15 times the big blind? So, you routinely get multiple callers with a raise to $30 pre-flop? I've never seen that before, and I've played in some loose maniacal $1 / 2 no limit games.

With all due respect, I would forget the advice which everyone has just given you. Instead of reading people and playing in position, I recommend working on making a great hand in a 3-way and heads up pot and then not getting pushed off of it while making sure you're not donating money on boards with 4 to a flush or straight unless you have a monster.

Don't just wait for Aces and Kings. AK, AQ, QQ, JJ, KQ suited and JT suited. If the whole table is full of calling stations, then raise whatever you have to in order to limit the field. If your opponents love to raise, then 3-bet them enough to win the pot or get only one or two opponents, even if its to $50.

Post-flop, learn when to use pot control, aggression, trapping, and getting away from a losing hand. But if you think you have the best of it, then get your stack into the middle of the table ASAP.

Sure, you're going to run into some bad luck. AJ offsuit and 43suited will occasionally beat your QQ, but not in the long run. However getting to the flop with 4 or 5 other players is going to make you want to throw those Aces away every time you get them. If you have to go all-in before the flop in order to limit the field, then do that!

Once you're holding your own and have some confidence back, then focus on hand reading, opponent tendencies, and playing in position.

It might help if you posted a couple example hands which you've recently faced and had difficulty negotiating. Good luck.


VS

Cant tell if your being serious now, but jic:

I dont really play 1-2, but I constantly see people saying they cant win because people's ranges are "too wide" or "call too much" in 1-2. What does that even mean??? just bet your hands, trust me.

I agree with this. One thing it took me some time to learn is to bet you good hands (monsters too) strongly. Value bet, value bet, value bet. In the beginning I was always getting tricky or trying to trap and would end up trapping myself. As Doyle said, betting and raising is how we get value for our hands. This is very true, but you have to be able to mix that in with knowing how to play post flop too. As you move along if you study and pay attention I think you will learn.

My best advice: Never ever show hands unless you are forced to show a winning hand at showdown. Never show bluffs. Never show big pocket pairs when making hero folds by folding them face up. Never ever do that.

If your opponents want info from you then make them pay to see it.

Also, never shows signs of struggle or that it hurts to fold your hand when facing a big bet. Decent players will pick up on this and automatically tag you as an easy fold. They will think that all they have to do is sneeze at the pot and you will fold.

Loosen up your game just a bit pre-flop, but still only put more money into the pot postflop only if you hit the flop or as a semi-bluff on a good flop for your hand.