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Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB

06-23-2010 , 09:12 PM
Villain is a very solid LAG. He's one of the most aggressive players at this game that I know of. He will raise any draw when he senses weakness but he also knows when to put on the breaks. We have a lot of history together of 3betting and 4betting preflop wars. I recently took a $550 pot from him with A high (action: he 3bets me preflop, cbets, and checks through remaining street). He knows he could have won that with another bet on the turn.
Villain has $2300

Hero has LAG/TAG image. He knows I can switch easily between the two.
I have $2200.

Preflop: Hero (MP1) dealt 66
UTG limps, hero limps, MP2 limps, BTN limps, blinds check

Flop ($25): 6h 7h Ts
hero bets $25, MP2 raises to $75, folds to hero, hero?

I feel I'm ahead given the ranges of hands he would raise here with, but bottom set might also be the bottom of my 3betting range here given stack sizes. Also, given that we're 400BB deep, pretty sure he would at least call any decent size raise in position.

What's the plan?
First, are we trying to maximize profit or minimize loss given board and stack sizes?
Second, assuming action goes to turn (most likely scenario), what's the plan for various cards (heart, 3-T, brick)?
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-23-2010 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by veryblind
but he also knows when to put on the breaks.
What does he just strategically get up to go the bathroom, get food/drink, etc?
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-23-2010 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantheterbl
What does he just strategically get up to go the bathroom, get food/drink, etc?
hi ivan, i don't know if that was sarcasm, but if you're looking to get clarity about what that means, it's that he knows how to slowdown such as checking behind or calling down for pot controlling.
the fear here is that he's raising to get a free turn card. he might slowdown and check through turn for fear of a c/r by me
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantheterbl
What does he just strategically get up to go the bathroom, get food/drink, etc?
Very funny, I like this.

IMO here we are trying to minimize loss, not maximize profit. I glad you stated it that way as that was the first thing I thought of. I have found, at least for my style, that this is the best way to play against this type of villain. So I call here.
On turn, bet any card that misses you, a little less than pot size, say $150. I know it seems strange to call flop reraise and then bet out turn, but this is confusing to this type player and he will only reraise w/nuts or close to it. It looks like massive strength by you and shows you're not afraid of him. If you check here it shows too much weakness and he can force you out. You want pot control/minimize loss but also not give up control of the betting-a fine line to walk.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-24-2010 , 12:25 PM
What is villain's opening range form MP2 after 2 limpers? Does it include 89 and 77? If it does I say make it $225, if it doesn't then call.

Villain is making it $75 OTF with a super wide range after he limps behind 2 other players pf.

If you make it $225 OTF and villain calls I'm bet/folding $325 on any brick turn.

If villain calls OTT, OTR, if villain is as truly good as you say he is I'm check/calling any scare cards for stacks. If villain isn't good enough to bluff the rvr than I'm check/folding any scare card (heart/8/9)
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-24-2010 , 05:22 PM
We're probably ahead of villian's range but I'm not looking to play for stacks at this point so I call here. OTT, I probably c/c most cards although I might c/r a total blank if I'm feeling frisky.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-24-2010 , 07:41 PM
Tough spot! I want to say go to $225 and if called b/f any blank turn ~$350 (c/calling all blank rivers)

But... If he goes to $600 (after we raise) I think we have to fold and that fugging sux!

Calling and then c/calling seems weak as hell but on that board, with bottom set, I don't want to play for stacks as against a good player, getting it all in seems like suicide (cause he ain't doin' it with an overpair or even 2P.)

Sick hand (thx for posting it.)

Last edited by KneedUrDough; 06-24-2010 at 07:48 PM.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 04:37 AM
This is an easy 3 bet to $225-$275. If you are playing 5/5 you should know this.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickCallMcGee
This is an easy 3 bet to $225-$275. If you are playing 5/5 you should know this.
U may be right but this post is useless
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 06:43 AM
Two considerations.

The first is relative hand strength. While the OP has a set, it isn't the nuts. However, TT (or higher) is really not in his range. He's good enough to raise these pf. Therefore, his range for raising is 77, Axs, 89 and some air (TP, over cards). Given these combos, the OP can't fold.

The second is how much money can the OP drag out of a weaker hand. A 3bet will scream at least a set or better. If he has a FD, a decent 3bet will price him out. The only hands that will play for stacks are those that beat the OP.

Therefore, the right decision is to call. Hero has a redraw to a better hand if the villain has a FD and hits the turn and frankly can't get much money out of TP at this point. Hero checks if the FD completes and bets if it doesn't.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 08:56 AM
lol @ raising this 400bb deep
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 11:52 AM
Being so deep is what makes this hand interesting. If they were 500 deep, then I like 3 betting and calling a shove. 2000 deep, if he makes it 275 and villian makes it 800, what are you going to do? 5bet shove with bottom set? Fold and be sick when he shows you his flush draw? Call and face a shove on the turn?
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 02:59 PM
If it is raised to 800 then fold. But only the sickest are willing to 4 bet attempt this as a bluff or semi-bluff. A vast majority of the time, opp will either call or fold.

I am leading into this pot 80%+ cards on the turn
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 05:22 PM
thx everyone for their input. I guess there's no clear answer and it depends on his perceived image of me as well as how i think he would react to different actions.

I thought that 3betting flop had no value. I essentially turn my hand into a bluff by folding out worse (0EV) or get called/raised by better (-EV). For the most part, I also think I turn my hand face-up if I 3bet. Given shallower stacks, I'm likely to 3bet all-in with sets, pairs, and combo draws against this type of player, but I'm pretty sure my 3betting range is pretty narrow here and bottom set is the bottom of that range if included at all. So turning my hand face-up allows him to play his hand perfectly.

In the end, I decided to conceal the strength of my hand and allow it to play against a wider range. I elected to flat the flop. The plan was to check/call "bad" turns and then check/fold rivers, or check/raise brick turns and either check/call or bet/fold rivers depending on card.

As the hand played out, the turn was an insignificant 5d. My check/raise attempt failed as he checked behind.
The river brought a 4s and again, it was checked through. So now you know what type of hand he raised me with.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 05:59 PM
I'd bet the river for value as he might pay you off if he has something like JThh. Then again checking to induce isn't bad if he's aggro
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-25-2010 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligic
lol @ raising this 400bb deep
This may be right, but I'd love to know why. Great useless comment.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-26-2010 , 07:50 AM
because you are too deep to get it in ldo
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-27-2010 , 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantheterbl
What does he just strategically get up to go the bathroom, get food/drink, etc?
That made me LOL..but seriously, give the OP a brake...
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote
06-27-2010 , 07:53 AM
For people who are 3betting the flop. Are 3bet/getting it in, or 3bet/folding?

Considering i hate 3bet/folding the flop, and whenever your 3bet/getting it in we are pretty much always crushed or have 35% equity, i much prefer a call here.

OP whats the turn? Pretty sure im c/c turn regardless.

Edit

Just seen turn and river cards. When he checks turn back, i probably bet the river fwiw, but i dont hate checking.
Live 5/5: bottom set with 400BB Quote

      
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