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Live 5/10 KK

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09-07-2009 , 06:34 AM

PokerFink

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 12,085

Venetian 5/10, 7-handed

CO is a tough/aggressive young player (Evan for any Venetian regs). He is thinking can make moves blah blah blah. AFAIK he views me as the same.

I have K

in the BB. I have 2300 he covers.

Preflop
UTG Straddles 20, CO opens to 60, I raise to 200, CO calls.

Flop (425): Q

I check, he checks.

Turn (425): T

I bet 280, he raises to 920, I ship for about 2100.

I figure I'm obliterated decently often on this turn, but I also figure his range has a billion different draws in it, so, yeah.

Thoughts? Anyone have different lines they like besides the standard bet/ship flop?

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09-07-2009 , 11:44 AM

Poker Anomaly

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 77

I fold pre-flop sometimes its called reverse twlighting, its were you fold a good hand to make others think you had a bad but really you had the second nuts you do this for deception.

I bet the flop and get it in.

As played meh!!! Your hand is under represented.

What range do you put him on here? QQ is likely given the action pre-flop, maybe AQ I cant see many draws either!! Maybe TT, QT? I think you are behind a lot TBH.

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09-07-2009 , 11:58 AM

newschool2

banned

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,291

bet flop always,

His range is polarized on the turn so dont shove for value.

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09-07-2009 , 01:43 PM

randomplaya

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 678

It's a big mistake not to cbet when OOP deep vs a player capable of making moves on a flop where you don't want to give him a free card. If you can bet/3betshove on the turn for 230bb then surely it's better for you to do that on the flop given the flop.

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09-07-2009 , 02:22 PM

Rampage_Jackson

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,772

I strongly dislike this turn shove because not much worse calls, and his raise was rather large indicating his range leans towards the stronger side (like TT).

If you check that flop, I would also check the turn to induce a bluff, and probably call a bet on most rivers. By checking the turn, we can rep hands like AK, that missed and are giving up.

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09-07-2009 , 02:48 PM

randomplaya

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage_Jackson

+1 check turn after checking flop

but just bet the flop makes it much easier

b/3bet on the turn gets called by hands far stronger than doing so on the flop

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09-07-2009 , 08:19 PM

TheRenaissance

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10,588

It is not really deep, with the straddle it plays like 10/20.
So I dont see why you shouldnt just bet the flop and go broke.

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09-07-2009 , 11:41 PM

fds

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,696

geez b/c flop 100%. checking flop is super-terrible.

turn you're so underrepped that I'm def getting it in, especially against described villain. he has tons of draws, pair+draws kinda hands.

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09-08-2009 , 09:54 AM

jshove87

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 659

I don't hate the flop check every once in a while esp if the guy is a reg and you play with him often enough to to where balancing ur range will have an impact over many sessions with him. As played I think you def have to ship the turn and I'd expect to be beat a decent amount of the time and expect him to have a big draw most of the time.

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09-08-2009 , 10:22 AM

#10

fds

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,696

^^^ I really don't like the check to balance. When we 3bet pre and check, we almost always have showdown value. Yes, KK is pretty much the top of that range. If we have air, we're always betting the flop, so I'd rather balance my betting range than worry about my checking range.

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09-08-2009 , 10:24 AM

#11

Renton

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

obviously bet flop

as far as the turn, i guess it must be a fold.

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09-08-2009 , 10:26 AM

#12

Renton

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,822

i mean, unless you believe he does this with draws, which you seem to.

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09-08-2009 , 01:00 PM

#13

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Bet flop for sure. Hate your turn shove...only called by better IMO. Only combo draw that seems to make sense he would call with is A

or A

. So two hands out of his range call you with 12 outs +, the rest you are drawing to two outs (all sets).

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