Just wondering at which spot(s) I could have played better here:
9 handed at Potawatomi in Milwaukee
Young Villain was very good player, I could tell he was thinking on multiple levels and mixing up his play based on who is opponents were(later learned he was a pro), we had not played a hand together up until this point, his image of me was that I was an above avg thinking player.
I had been playing about 1 hour and Villain had been very aggressive w/position especially preflop. I had made my mind up that next time I thought he was stealing preflop from late position that I would 3bet him.
Villain was in CO w/~2k
Hero in BB w/~900
This hand came up: Folded to Villain in CO, he raised to $30 (avg raise at table had been $20-25), SB called, I looked down at JJ from BB and 3bet to $130, he thought a long time and 4bet to $230, SB folded, I thought long time and called, flop came T64r, I thought long time and checked, he thought long time and bet $150, I thought long time and folded(lotta thinking goin' on)
When this hand was done I felt I really butchered it, but unsure where, probable mult spots?

My thoughts during hand: "I'll 3bet and take this hand down" then "He min-4bet raised, is he trying to get me to 5bet shove w/this and call with his big PP? I'll just call here as I have value and can actually still barely set-mine if he has big PP. I don't want to play for stacks w/JJ" then "I have an overpair but big deal, he's representing a big PP, Maybe I can get this hand checked down. Any bet from me gets me committed" then "Wow, he only bet $150, what now? Any further commitment from me and I'm getting it all in, I guess I'll fold and move on"

My thoughts after hand: "I made mistake 3bet w/JJ OOP, I should have called and played hand for value. I should've waited and 3bet with a hand that was at the top of my folding range", also "could I have shoved over his min 4bet and taken this down there?", also "I should have led out on this flop(for how much?)", and finally "I should have shoved over his smallish flop bet".

Any and all comments welcomed, I don't see much 4betting lite at live play so I guess I was lost.

I have learned to raise more preflop when you 3bet in that spot.

why do you 3bet to "take this hand down". you are either bluffing or 3betting for value. not to end the hand

Preflop: The slightly larger than usual open raise from the button worries me a bit. There are certainly exceptions, but I find atypically large open raises from steal position tend to be strong hands that the raiser is hoping the blinds read as weak simply because the raise is coming from steal position. I think your options here are either to 3bet/fold or (it seems weird) just call and proceed with a degree of caution.

Just my opinion...

JJ is too good of a hand to 3bet with here...

...Bottom or top of range especially against a thinking pro

Does it make a difference that it gets me heads up w/JJ instead of 3 handed, or isn't that a consideration here?

plz explain, cant we put villain on hands like TT, 99, AK/AQ?!?

if u 3bet a hand like KJo (or much worse) and u get 4bet, it's an easy hand to get away from but if u get 4bet with JJ and aren't willing to go all the way with it, u've inherently lost value and turned a good hand into a bluff (u wouldn't 'normally' 3bet with 88 here, would u?)

BTW: this is my opinion, a lot of people 3bet with the top half of their range but I choose to make this move with the very top and very bottom (for value and to create value from hands with none.)

you seem to be assuming he is never going to be flatting our 3b wide but I think he will do for sure

So he flats it and the flop comes A94r, u cbet and he floats u... Now what? or the flop comes T77ss, u cbet and he raises? Ur bloating a pot OOP with a hand that quite frankly doesn't often flop well. With a good medium strength hand against a thinking player where u will be OOP u should be trying to keep the size of the pot small.

In another thread, someone pointed out that people loss money with JJ if they don't hit a set. I suck, so my DB shows that is true for me. Therefore, I like the 3bet but hate the 4 bet call. You are't getting paid off OOP. Fold or shove.

Is it me? or does a raise to 90 give us the same information? If Villain re-raises, we can fold? Is folding too nitty? Is flatting a 4 bet smart? Aren't we set mining at this point? How light is the CO 4 betting?

Think I find a better spot against a weaker player.

A. when hero is deep with sharp villain, 3 betting OOP is bad business. I basically dont want to 3 bet OOP vs him unless i have superb hand.

When OP 3 bet with JJ, there was no apparent plan for the 4 bet. Whenever you raise, you should know what you will do if re-raised beforehand. Flatting the 4 bet is really bad. Thats a shove or fold spot. I prolly would have shoved if i got to this point because this villain used his stack perfectly to put hero in position of shove/fold and odds would be that hero isnt shoving. It is fine to expend up to 25% of stack or so and still fold if you can win preflop often. This villain seems to know this by the size of his 4 bet.

I would have flatted preflop myself and played a small pot.

you have to understand that i can give you JJ OOP deep and i will take a random hand and call your 3 bet, and still win most of the time if outplaying postflop is my goal. There just isnt much hero can do about it. Thats why i prefer not to 3 bet except a very tight range there. Its a good thinking villain. We dont need to fight with him OOP.

Preflop: When the villain 4 bets, he is setting a SPR of less than 2 to 1. If he is a good player, can't you narrow his range down to QQ+ and AK? (the SPR eliminates the chance of any junk) If that is the case, then you got your information, he actually has a good hand, you are way behind to his range, and you can fold.

Post flop: Seems like a good spot to bet / fold. If you lead out and he raises you, very unlikely he has a hand you can beat. When you check to him, you are totally at his mercy.

If he is doing all this repping a hand he doesn't actually have, then damn, he is a good player.

umm, you are saying there is no such thing as a light 4 bet by a very good villain who is almost 200bb deep? This IMO would be an error if so. Admittedly you dont see it much live, because it takes TWO good villains inside each others heads to attempt it.

I think the point is, because of our hand/position, unless we flop a set in a 4bet pot preflop, we're going to get outplayed post-flop most hands.