Relatively brand new table (15 minutes old or so)

Villain #1 in MP makes it 25. He has shown pretty wild aggression already both betting and calling. Has about $750

Villain #2 in the Hijack calls. He has been just as wild as Villain #1 with about $450.

HERO on the button QQ with about $475 Calls. I haven't played any hands yet, doubt I even have much of an image at this point.

(my thoughts here were I'll play it slow pre and let them hang themselves on a good flop or get away cheap)

Thoughts?

Villain #3 in the Small blind with about $500 calls and closes the action. Then loudly announces he checks blind. This is only his 2nd hand at the table, he came in on his BB.

Flop: 9-8-3 with 2 diamonds.

SB - checks
Villain 1 -bets $75
HJ - Folds
Hero - Calls (I really feel like this should have been a raise here, but I thought I had Villain #1 dominated and I didn't want to scare him off so at the time I felt like a call would continue to let him hang himself)

SB - Instantly said I'm all in (for about 400 more)
Villain 1 - tank calls
Hero - ???

I know I took a weird line, but those were my intentions to let either Villain 1 or 2 keep firing with a weak hand.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

I raise pre-flop on the button there because both villains that are in before you have proven themselves to be wild, which means:

1. You are more likely to be ahead of their holdings
2. They will probably call your raise with drawing hands leading to a bigger pot for you to win if they don't hit.

By just calling you invited the SB to join in, and now you are against 3 players with your QQ, one of which is the SB who got 3-1 odds to call - he could have almost any 2 cards here.


As played, the SB is in and dark-checked, which in my experience is more often than not a suited AQ or small pocket pair, especially in a multiway pot - both of which could have hit this flop. And now we have the middle-position original pre-flop raiser betting 3/4s pot. If your read is you have him dominated, you want to raise to get the small blind guy out of there and be heads up with him. I raise to $150 here.

However you probably saved yourself some money, because if the SB still shoves after your raise, you have to fold.


And as played, I think you have to fold. You might have either SB or MP beat, but against both of them you are probably not a favorite to win the hand.

Early in a new game, I almost always feel that playing ABC poker works best unless you specifically want to portray a different image at the start. This is more important with serious pps like QQ from the button. Your button 3b is going to look wide enough as it is, so I really think you missed a good chance there.

As played this is a fold. You took a weird line and it didn't work out IMO. If you're ahead at this point, it's pretty thin.

I think ur plan to call and let them hang themselves later is where we need to focus. With two players in the pot already I think raising here is best. With the description given villian 1 is never folding JJ 1010 99 wich are the hands we would want to keep in by calling. If he is still going to continue with that part of his range we should get as much money in pre as possible. If we think raising will fold out those holdings we would only call. First of all I dont like ur plan because it involves letting two players try n hang themselves and we have a hand that will be tough to play multi way when an ace or king flop and you are letting the blinds in cheap. Dont ask yourself IF you should raise pre ask yourself why you should raise or call and consider the affect of your actions are going to have on your oppenent and the range of hands that he will continue with.

Right, not to mention the two players yet to act behind you.

you need to raise pre or raise flop. QQ goes down in value with every street, especially against multiple players. Why not (a) make it 100 to go pre, or (b) put 100-125 more out there OTF?

As played, I'm folding.

I think if you raise pre you win this hand. SB is folding their pocket 3's.

Preflop raising with QQ is standard (you don't want to price others in to call) but in this case it should ALWAYS be done because:

1) You are on the button. This makes it look like u are making a play. (your range is quite wide)
2) Opponents are both wild aggressive players. You destroy their range and a 3-bet may lead to them 4-betting you weak which could lead to you getting it all in when you destroy their range.

Heck, even if you just win the blinds you take down ~$55. That's not too shabby. You really screwed this up by playing like a passive nit. PLAY STRONG HANDS AGGRESSIVELY.

I would still reraise QQ preflop despite your reasons. Maybe I would do this with AA, but even then mostly if the blinds liked to squeeze.

Flop I would just call IP. I can see reasons for raising but not sure you get him to call with worse much and think you aren't doing too well if he shoves even with his aggro image. As played I would fold. You don't know SB, and his range here is pretty small. Unfortunately for you he can have a worse value hand like JJ or TT but that's the cost of your plan. His overall range has excellent equity against you. Not sure what villain tank calls with though. Maybe a hand like yours - TT-AA or a big draw.

When you trap sometimes it goes wrong and you have to be able to get away from a marginal hand.

You're definately beat.

SB doesnt just flat then CRAI with air. He's got 98 or set. Possibly huge JTdd draw.

You stated you flatted both PF and Flop bet to let them hang themselves and keep firing with a weak hand... you got your wish, but you let them get there.

The fact that villian 1 who opened to $25 is wild and crazy is even more reason to juice it up. I'd probably make it something screwy like $115. Looks like you're trying to steal.

When you have a great hand like QQ in late position, take advantage of it. I'd rather see you flat with QQ in the blinds and "let them hang themselves" when you are in early position.

This + 1000

OP, I understand your logic for wanting to slow play in this spot because that is fish/donk logic. I know, sounds harsh but its true. When fish/donks are strong they love to slow play, hope to flop the absolute nuts, then further hope their villians go all-in...

However, this rarely happens. What usually happens is that the fish has ZERO clue where he is at in a hand that usually picked up some hitchhikers and is now in a multiway scary pot...

You have purposely underrepped your hand, so your awesome planned worked.

You've underrepped your hand, V c/r shoved, he fell into your awesome trap, so why are you now having second thoughts?

I'm being 100% serious and sincere here. This is a 100% snap call AINEC.

YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED.

In poker, one of the most -EV things we can do is formulate a plan, have everything work out to said plan, and then not follow through.

V can have TT/JJ here as well as AK, AQ. KQ air or FD. Again being sincere and serious. Based on how you played this hand this is a 100% snap call AINEC.

What does AINEC mean?

3 bet pre for value and also to protect your hand. Big pairs dont like multiway pots.

Same logic for the turn, as played raise, maybe $175 all day

Fold to CRAI and salvage your remaining stack

and its not even close

Folding to CRAI on FD boards when you have an overpair and the shove is for 80bb or less is horrific. And its even worse to do so after you've put almost half your stack in the pot. QQ has wayyyyyy too much equity to fold especially after getting half your stack in there.

reraise pf, raise flop, as played turbofold

$100/$475= 1/5 of your stack. Just because you called 1/5 of your stack doesnt mean you have to call off the other 4/5.

Your just hoping the sb has a flush draw and using that fact to justify stacking off with 1 pair, i think theres plenty of other opportunities to put in 4/5 of your stack when you at least KNOW you have the equity to do so.

To the snap fold crowd.

What do we expect V to do if he has JJ or TT here? What about AJdd or KTdd?

Serious question.

Similarly, based on how we've played this hand. What range is villian assigning to us?

Lastly, what is your experience with "check in the dark villians?". Is it safe to say that check in the dark villians are prone to FPS and make moves?

Now, if you can answer all of the above honestly I don't see how you can conclude this is a fold.

Is this a high variance situation?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

But its still an easy +EV call for under 100bb unless I am missing something.

Can someone please enlighten me as to how I'm wrong besides the "wow V bet big so obviously we are crushed" autopilot logic...