I swear I'm just trying to hammer home a point on which you really ought to reflect because it's not like I'm on here rooting against you -- I mean why not just take another look at things in a vacuum bc it really is about the concepts, not your individual strategy. I even made that clear from the first post that I didn't care about the hand you used to 3b. Even take a look at the highlights from your last post. All of this is detrimental and amateur even if you don't take the game too seriously the times you go play -- I am certain that at the very least someone is going to lightbulb from the conversation because winning at poker is more method and approach than ranges and sizings.

I mean the whale thing is nonsense anyway and was just exaggerating to make the point that everyone who is conceptually deficient might as well be in the same category.

Daddy, in heaven, will all Villains play like the guys in this hand?

Thanks for the insight, guy who has written one thread about pocket queens.

Interesting river spot

This was so cool! First time I've ever had a hand of mine being discussed in a video. Appreciate your analysis as well, especially focusing on the river decision and expected range of Villain's hands. This is exactly why I created the post.

I'll have to check out your other videos in the future. Merci beaucoup!

*facepalm* we tried.

What is wrong with you? You didnt give any good advice and you make up definitions to established gambling terms. And from what I read on other posts, I'm not alone in thinking you don't know what you're talking about.

Just go away.

You found the approval you needed

/

this leak is what you should focus on
not how to play a hand we shouldn't be in to start with

No, this is again stupid 2plus2 shtposting.

I asked what I should do on the river as played. I don't care if my preflop raise was bad. I'm not asking about it and I don't care your thoughts. You can say it's a leak, bad play, bad strategy or whatever. I don't want to discuss it nor argue about it. I want to know about the river decision specifically. That's the post yet here you are shtposting. Why can't this community focus on the OP's topic at hand?

Don't hate the 3b pre as much as most others here, but I do still kinda hate it. Should be 3betting every once in a while with low suited kings but this prob wasn't the right time for it since you generally don't want to push loose passive calling stations out of the pot when you're sitting 300bb effective. You can really abuse bet sizing against them sitting that deep.

River not only is the Ad out, but the 8d is also out which is important since he can't have hands like 86d, 87d, or even 89d which could all continue for that flop sizing. Any set or 2pair should be betting the river, and if he's bluffing as often as he should be he probably can't fold most of them to a river shove. I'd have a pretty hard time not pushing tbh.

Yeah when you post a hand for feedback you don't get to make poor decisions at the start of the hand and expect to be exempt from criticism just because you don't want to hear it.

Preflop is whatever. Maybe in GTO-land K3s is a low percentage 3bet.
Forum is too hung up on preflop IMO. Question is about whether 3x is too thin as a raise on the river. Pretend we roll a low percentage check-back on turn with A3s, and get here on the river. Question is the same. Should we raise or call?

as played

we beat 2 pair
chop a 3
loose to flush

shove

Been following this thread from the beginning and this is the best and most polite way I've seen to describe what's going on.

BCloud, you're excessively defensive and, frankly, out-of-line. Before Amanaplan lost his temper and after he regained it, he has provided quality feedback. Rather than discuss the hand, you chose to try and prove you knew what the better line was.

Frankly BCloud, I think this was a brag post, no more and no less.

lol how is this a brag post he posted to ask if river raise is too thin given the opponent line, which is a reasonable question to ask. He also lost the hand, so not a brag in my view.
Everyone ITT needs to chill out including OP.

1) Amanaplan has not provided quality feedback in this thread. It fact, it's been awful, condescending and really, really strange. I was done responding to him until he showed his ass again with a 'facepalm' shtpost.
2) Imagine explaining 3-betting Kc-3c in a forum in which 90% of discussions are about AA, KK or the occasional TPTK decision. I knew people would come for it, but I also thought they'd give some river feedback as well. When it was clear that 90% was directed at preflop (and then subsequently my entire poker career), of course I got defensive. In hindsight, I should have taken the approach "ChaosInEquilibrium" described above and lied about my starting hand. Had I said I had As3s or 33, this thread would have been more focused and less of a pissing contest.
3) I never said what the better line was. I defended why I did it which is a big difference.
4) Clueless why you think this is a brag post. After this hand I was stuck close to 3k in midst of a pretty short live session. Is it because I posted an off the cuff hand? Respectively curious here.

To 411HeelHook, snowman, Demichele, feelwrath, hitchens97, ChaosInEquilibrium, thank you for your feedback. I think the slight majority is saying raise/push on the river as played.

Agreed with CIE, this river spot is legit very interesting and far more interesting than the preflop discussion.

This thread is far more antagonistic than it has any right to be, people really need to chill out and act like professional adults.

my arm is stuck in a bear trap and my choices are to stay put and be mauled by the bear or to chop off my arm with a hatchet?

I think discussing why we shouldn't be in that spot to begin with is relevant.

also we can discuss whats on our plate now but shouldn't sweep under the rug previous mistakes

There's a difference between sweeping something under the rug and beating a dead horse.

The horse is dead. You've beaten it so much that the discussion has veered from discussing poker to discussing just how bruised and battered that poor dead horse already is. Would it be acceptable to hold the funeral now and move on with our lives, or do you still have a few more whacks left in you?

depends
did I ever lose money on that horse


agreed

There is a lot of value discussing this concept pre. Again, not the hand, but the concept.

OP has the swagger to have us all shut down this part of the conversation, why? We’re in a public forum and value is subjective. For me, there is nuance that trumps basic strategy in many spots in a live game and this preflop spot is one to which, ironically, OP is obtuse. That’s fine too, but someone lightbulbed hard and that’s the spirit of the forum and why I hammer home a point as hard is o do. I don’t have to be right, but I’m never going to be reductive - that’s vile.

Holy moly, you are the most stubborn, unaware poster I've ever encountered. This "word salad" reply makes 0 sense, just like 99% of everything you've commented so far.

If you can't understand that the river decision is more valuable/interesting than the preflop mistake, then IMO you don't have ability or understanding to add value to this thread. I know in your head you think you're doing a good service here, but i can assure you that you're not "lightbulbing" anyone. Nobody here thinks k3 suited is a great 3 bet. I don't think k3 suited is a great 3 bet. It was a spot in which I thought it was at the time though because of a number of specific factors.

I too don't want to beat a dead horse but I'll suggest again that you should go away and find a post that you're better suited to respond to. The river decision is apparently above your head and it's making you as well as me responding to your nonsense, look bad.

OP, I agree that way too much airtime has been spent on preflop now, but the thing is, if you make a bad play and people go "that's bad" and then you double down and tell them why it's actually good, you'll generate a whole lot of discussion about it.

A better way to do it would be to say something like "I did x which was bad, folding would have been better, can we focus on the river" in the opening post. This won't prevent some posters from saying things like "fold pre LOL" but it will get it out of the way so it's not the focus of the thread.

Now you can say well I shouldn't have to do that or whatever, but the thing is, this way you get what you say you want, which is to discuss the river.

Pre is an always call w K3s otb deep w the station and other player creating a dynamic that forces tight player to have all value on later streets the times the station continues past flop. Should be able to create problems for them on those streets when you flop well enough.

River is call>>>>>>>>fold>>raise bc there aren’t many players willing to open themselves up to a raise on a 3 flush 4 liner OOP while also betting pot aka raises only serve as a chop block max.