So i played these 2 hands, where I'm not sure if i should be vb these rivers.

Hand 1

Villian is a dealer, and although he's not your typical reg from online (doesn't buy in max, seen him open limp), he's not a big fish and does have a clue.

5 handed, $400 eff, 2 limps to me on button, i raise to $20 w/ A9o (a little susp sure but getting it heads up with position i hopefully should navigate fine), bb and villian who called limp calls

3 way - $60ish
FLOP 229r

x, villan donks $45, hero calls

$145ish

4c (fd on board now), villain bets $80.....
so here, im already worried because i clearly have at LEAST 9x. there is a possiblity that villian thinks im floating with overcards with bdfd on the flop, but he has to see that i have a ton overpairs, 9x. are we ever folding yet?
i call.

River a blank
villian checks. do we vb?


Hand 2

$300-400 eff

MP opens, sb calls, hero calls bb with 66

$45
flop K56hh

xxx

turn 9x

sb bets $20, hero raises $70, fold, sb calls

river 8x

sb checks....would you vbet here vs most bad 1/3 players?
i dont expect to villian to ever 3b turn with anything but the nuts. even a bigger set is just calling. that being said, he prob isn't calling turn with any 8x (tho k8 maybe, and small % of 98), or anything less than Kx. i couldn't process all this at the table, but i see it now

HH#1:

After two limps I probably just do my default fold preflop with this hand.

I also just call the flop.

Might lean towards a fold on the turn although it does somewhat depend on our image (the more nittier we are seen the more he is showing massive strength).

Close spot on the river. I think we see a lot of JJ-TT here (and sometimes even surprising QQ+). Obviously there are 9x hands to get value from, but does he have a lot of 9x preflop? 88/77 looks like the most likely payoff candidate. I don't mind a check back.

GcluelessNLnoobG

HH#2:

Preflop ain't great going only 3ways and OOP, although we are getting a slight price break. Think I'd mostly want at least one of these guys to be a drooler otherwise it is a bit meh, imo.

Think I'd mostly donk the flop. This is one of the huge problems with being OOP, in that if a street checks thru there is no way setmining is going to be profitable, and yet we often have to tip our hand.

Cool with the turn.

Does he ever bluff? We could perhaps induce a busted flush draw to bluff with a small scaredy looking bet. And maybe a small scaredy bet gets looked up by worse. Although whether I actually pull the trigger with a 1/4 PSB in real time is debatable (but I probably should).

GcluelessNLnoobG

FYI for 2nd hand, i meant to say villain doesn't call the raise with much 7x, (not 8x).

Inducing a xr on the river with nowhere near close to the nuts is something i prob haven't ever done and need to work on for sure. I do like the idea. I was also thinking just going big to look more bluffy and hoping to get looked up by TP etc.

Our turn raise doesn't really align with bluffs tho. If we hadda flatted the turn bet then it more looks like we're on a busted flush draw and I could get behind a bigger bet.

GimoG

Also just noticed your location; curious as to what the rake is in your game?

GpreparestohandoutpukebagsG

You're right. I dont expect much of these players to realize this but u are right lol. Rake is 15% at $15 max. Are you from around me?

L.O.L.

Ggoodluckwiththat,imoG


I'm on the west coast where we have a dream rake of 10% to $9 max + $1 BBJ + $1 highhand. But we'll be in your disgusting spot eventually (we all will, it is only a matter of time).

FWIW, in high rake environments like ours, it is my best guess that (a) we should play almost no hands whatsoever and (b) LRRing to take down pots rake-free preflop is a massive coup.

Ggoodlucktobothofus,imoG

Honestly i thought it was decent, compared to other underground places. Yours is def good tho. .Itll take a long time before i realize if i can beat this game for an amount worth the time spent, and then ill prob feel the effects of the high rake.

H1 is a river shove imo if you think he’s the type to hero call a 9-hi board with BDFD bricking out. His flop lead should be 9x heavy because (i) while you didn’t give suits, there aren’t many A2s left in the deck, and (ii) this board is as dry as it gets and 2x has no need to bet for protection when PFR can c-bet air or flop checks through and gives two players a chance to make a worse made hand. Sure, I’d rather have AA here but relative strength wise it’s all the same vs. his calling range absent the once in a blue moon time he has TT.

H2 you want to get called by 55/2p/TPGK so I’d bet anywhere from $70-90.

I'll spoiler so as not to derail thread on a rake convo.



GcluelessrakenoobG

OP - no one likes doing math. Give the pot size on every street. Bonus points for including remaining stack depth.

H1 - I value bet the river, because I don't think he's going to slow down with trips or 99.

Seems like he was just trying to value-bet 9x, or possibly rep 2x, and gave up. I think all his 9x with a higher kicker are likely to call a reasonable over-bet on the river, when all the draws brick out. Probably bet like 1.3x-1.5x pot.

H2 - donk flop. We can only check-raise if they bet, and MP is less likely to bet into two opponents without a strong hand, and might check back his draws.

Also value betting the river. SB would 3B the turn with 87 or 99. He was either stabbing turn because the flop checked through, possibly semi-bluffing with a draw that bricked out, or maybe betting some 1P or 2P combo. Hard for him to have 65, but maybe K9, or weak Kx, or maybe some 9x that turned 2d pair, and possibly he shows up with 98 and wants to play for stacks.

Doc - H1 there’s only an 80% PSB remaining.

Did I or did I not say no one likes doing math?

I'm one of those no ones.

If it's 80% psb, then stick it in.

Then again, if V is prone to FPS, I might bet stoopid-small, and hope he tries to rep something that would check-raise for value. I'd beat him into the pot if he check-jams.

It's 1/3 with less than 150bb's. TPTK is good enough to v-bet when V slows down and checks the river.

Hand 1. Why do you think he's making a biggish donk bet? Most low stakes players aren't going to donk bet this board without something. I do play in a room when a bigger game isn't playing, some players will donk bet this board with napkins since it is unlikely to have hit your hand. The very limited read you gave indicated that this isn't one of those players. However, a lot of low stakes players will donk out to protect their TP. I think trips is less likely to do so. Therefore, I'm calling the flop and turn bets. For the river, I think there is more value in seeing what he donk bet with than the net value you'll get by betting. Make sure you insist that he shows down first.

Hand 2. I bet the river about 1/2 PSB. If he slow played the straight, he lost value by letting you set the price.