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Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Live 1/2NL Line with JJ

08-06-2012 , 07:17 AM
Hello, I have not posted here in a long time but I just needed to know real bad what else I could have done with this hand (or what I should have done).

Setup:
I sat down at the table for about an hour. V1 is very aggressive and he was just seen raising with 67o a few hands back (and stacked a guy with A2 on a 345 board). V2 is loose, kinda passive, although I have seen him donk into a prf raiser in one hand. he's kinda swonging, going from $800 at one point down to $400.

Stack sizes:
Me: SB with $700
V1: HJ with $900+
V2: Button with almost $400

Action:
HJ: raises to $11
Button: Call
Hero (JJ): 3Bet to $40, HJ and Button both call.

Flop: 234 rainbow (1 club). I asks V1 if he has me covered, it was more of a statement than a question, he says something to the effect of yes.

I bet $80, V1 folds, V2 calls.

Turn: Kc.
Hero: ??

What should my line be here? Also, anyone think I should play differently pre or on the flop?

Thanks for any help.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
08-06-2012 , 05:35 PM
Villain sees you have a solid hand, (maybe a squeeze, but V1 scares him off of a re-raise.) and calls with Ax, a low-mid pocket pair, suited connectors.

When you c-bet OTF he puts you on an over-pair or AK AQ, but him just calling shows he is either on a semi-draw but his 45 A3 A4 55 or 66 beats some of your range, or already has a made hand, A5 56 22 33 44 34, another over-pair like 8s or 9s.

As is turn, if you bet and he shoves, you have to call, you pretty much trap yourself to his monster, he folds his A pair here, shoves his made hands and maybe his draws as a semi-bluff.

I don't see a point in checking unless your going to fold, if you call, you are probably going to end up with all your chips in OTR. Best to just bet and hope for the best.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
08-07-2012 , 12:57 PM
I was thinking among similar lines but you don't think its a little light to put more $ in with JJ on 234K board?
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
08-07-2012 , 02:03 PM
squeeze larger due to stack depth.

you can easily have Kx here especially AK. if you bet turn and get raised, you are crushed if he's not getting out of line in this spot.

as a default betting is prob best but depending on your reads of him you might get a showdown easily by checking, and if he bets there's still room to soulread him.

Last edited by ggnoobs; 08-07-2012 at 02:31 PM.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
08-07-2012 , 03:32 PM
c/f turn vs passive
vbet most rivers if he checks back

theres an argument for betting flop bigger and jamming turn though if hes calling 88/99/TT
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 02:49 AM
Flat pre or 3bet to $50. As played, hard to say. Hard to get called by worse, hands you beat have little equity usually. At the same time, if you check you turn your hand face up as 99-QQ a lot. I'd lean towards bet fold. Makes him play more straightforward.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 02:50 AM
If you think he's the type to float with AQ and can turn 88, 99 type hands into bluffs check call turn check reevaluate river is better
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 02:22 PM
I like a flat Pre. As noted, the players in the game/ hand are playing pretty wide open and its tough to range accurately. Being OOP, JJ plays tough on most flops once its bloated due to the 3bet. If you flat and the flop looks good for JJ you have options and can maybe just check-station for value. It sucks, but with the players i usually see in 1-2, bloating the pot with 1 pair hands OOP is just a recipe for disaster.
As played pre, I like the flop bet. Once flatted for 80 on turn you really just need to decide if they are calling 3 bets with small connectors or pairs that hit 2 pair or set. If that's a big enough part of their range maybe just shutdown. If the mid pairs seem more likley, it looks like a good spot to get it in against 77-99, and hope he didnt hero float flop with AK high or bink small set and SP.

My first ever 2+2 post or response.. bring the pain on my thoughts!
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 07:20 PM
i would c/c
then re-eval on river

if checked through bet river
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 08:54 PM
CRAI turn. Even passive players might take gutless stabs on a turn check. He might even talk himself into a call with pairs and draws.

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Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 09:14 PM
If you bet ott you are pretty much committing yourself to calling if he shoves because ott v only has $280 left and the pot itself is $280.

Doesn't make sense to let's say bet $140 ott and fold if he goes over the top ai for $140 more when you'll be getting 5 to 1 on a call.

AP ott I would probably put him ai and hope he has a draw or an underpair to jacks.

My personal preference is to make someone call my shove instead of calling his/her shove when I have a strong feeling the chips are going in the middle one way or the other.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 09:50 PM
I don't mind a flat or 3bet here depending of my image and Vs. If 3betting we need to bet more 45-60 I'd say due to being oop and stack depth. I also think 2/3 pot on flop is too much on this dry board. Especially a board that doesn't scare me in a 3 bet pot. We want him to continue with his mid pairs. Bet 1/2 pot or so. Against this type of V I am firing again on the turn. If you think he is likely to try and steal or will value own himself checking is fine. It's very hard to get 3 streets of value from JJ. So more than likely you will have to check 1 street and see what V does. Against passives I'm not too concerned about this in terms of being exploited and bluffed
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 10:05 PM
Doubt king helped him unless he the type to to smooth call AK on button.
Plus he would had to float in a bloated pot on flop.

I am definitely committed to hand. But we need yo keep his range wide. So I would check/call or check shove depending on his bet size.

If he checks behind I'm value betting river.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-22-2014 , 10:07 PM
These are tough spots that highlight the difficulty playing OOP.

Interestingly, in a way we would rather have AQ here. The K only adds FE against hands like 66-TT. This serves us well as a barrel after a c-bet but not so much when we have JJ.

Our action for the rest of the hand really depends on V2's tendencies. If he is stationy he may call one more bet with a pair we beat but not two. If he is a real passive showdown monkey then he will likely check back turn and call a small river value bet with a smaller overpair. I think the only downside to this is allowing him to possibly bluff you off the best hand but that K is probably scary to him (you 3-bet. you either have a big overpair or AK, right) unless he flopped a set so this is unlikely.

I'm torn bw bet small/fold and c/f.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote
01-23-2014 , 03:06 AM
B/f turn. Probably checking behind rivers where we don't improve.
Live 1/2NL Line with JJ Quote

      
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