So today I had my worst day ever results wise at MD live 1/2 $300 max buy ins. I dropped 3 bullets for -$900, each one on one hand two of which pre flop.

Hand :1

I think this was my 3rd orbit, very early in the session. I feel like I should always find a fold here but I will post it anyways.

My stack is $300 effective, V1 stack is $90 or so V2 is pretty deep at least $400

V2: opens for 10 in the big blind
Hero: QQ (red) early mid position 3bets to $40
V1: shoves for 80 or 90
V2: 4 bets to 200*** this was confusing, V2 says *all in* and puts $200 in 5s in and I say call. But then he ships the rest of his stack on the flop which I also definitely couldve saved more money there. Point is I thought he said all in and I was calling but instead it was ruled as a 4 bet.

anyways so the flop comes Jd 2d 3h and V2 ships the rest and I tilt call.
V1 tables KsKc V2 tables AsAc and I table red queens.

I know I played that badly but I thought it was nuts that pocket tens and pocket 7s were folded pre so tens, 7s, queens, kings and aces were dealt in the same hand.

Bullet two and here's where I have real questions.

Hero with KdKh utg+1 Villain is small or big blind my stack $275 his around $475

Hero: bets $10 with black kings and gets 6 callers
Villain from the blind makes it $100 to go
Hero: tanks for a a minute or so and I ship the remaining $265
folds around to villain who insta calls tabling red aces

I really thought he was trying to take down the pot pre with A-Ks pot was $70 already and he raised to $100, at that point $170 is in the pot and I have 250-260 behind. I felt like shipping or folding are the only two options. It seems -ev to be folding kings in this spot as Aces are the only hand I am in bad shape against.


Bullet 3

Hero: Ac-2s in the small blind with 5 limpers Villain in the big blind 300 effective stacks

Villain bets 7$ from the bb with one caller and I decide to call as well just to see a flop figuring I was getting good odds on my money

Flop comes 3c 4c 5s

Hero checks
BB (villain) bets $20 and the other caller folds to me and I call
Turn is a 3 of clubs
Hero checks
Villain bets 75
Hero tanks for a minute and calls
8 of spades hits the river I check and Villain ships it
I tank, I decided he didn't have a flush on the turn...I don't expect him or these players to play flush draws that way. So I still didn't think he had a flush. I tank and call for the rest of my stack.

Villain tables 8c8d for the boat

this is another spot where I thought I was ahead and if I am sure he doesn't have a flush there are only 4 hands that beat me and I have to go with my hand. I suppose I could've jammed the turn when he bets 75? My issue with that is I think only better is going to call as opposed to taking his over pair to value town.

1st hand was pretty spewy, I basically lit 300 bucks on fire but the other two? Are these hands that I just have to deal with as part of the game or did I not play them optimally?

My goal right now is to get in 100 hours a month or as close to that as my roll allows and earn 18-30 an hour and get up to 2-5 so I will be posting more hands and questions. I want to be as objective and focused as possible any and all help is greatly appreciated.

-sr1129

Each hand should be a separate thread.

Hand 1 - played bad
Hand 2 - seems standard but impossible to say for certain without reads
Hand 3 - Fold pre to raise. As played trying to get money in on flop/turn before too many scare cards come to kill our action.

Hand 1: Situational, but folding QQ to a double shove is very possible. In any case, you should have clarified the confusing action without letting it tilt you. That is a real problem you have to solve or it will bite you again and again.

Hand 2: Depends on villain, but I'm probably doing the same thing. Putting villain in exactly AK is bad, but most players have a range like AK/QQ+ in that situation and stack sizes mean you might as well shove if your going to play.

Hand 3: Fold pre, A2o will just get you killed. Your write up is wrong because no flush got there, but I'll assume a club flush did come in on turn. The hand you lost to is unlikely but you lose to a bunch on river 62, 76, 55, 44, 33, 53, 43 and flushes. More importantly, the river shove is almost never going to be worse. The way you played this hand looks like you have 55/44 a lot, not an over pair.

Sorry new to the forum, will make separate posts next time.

The confusing situation with the 4 bet on the first hand was I heard him say all in, but when he pushed the chips the dealer counted the chips and thought it was a 4 bet. So I thought I was all in pre....I think I was tilty after seeing short stack show KK. It was just stupid, $$ will be saved next time.

On the hand where I flopped the wheel, I don't think I wrote it wrong but to clarify the flop was written wrong, the 3 was the spade, the 5 was the second club so 3s 4c 5c and the turn was the 3c.

I planned on folding in most cases with the A-2 unless I hit the flop hard, I didn't think there were any aces out there that limp call though it is a possibility. I certainly understand how a-2o isn't a great hand to habitually call a raise with after a caller. I was pretty sure he didn't have a flush and he didn't.

I know 4 set combos have me beat in that spot, my question is does he ALWAYS have those hand combos in that spot? Assuming he doesn't have a flush how many times out of ten does he have me beat?

I clearly see a fold pre eliminates the need for any of this but I figure it doesn't hurt to think about it.

thanks

-sr1129

After the flush comes in and board pairs, I don't think any villain who plays the hand like that is shoving anything you beat. Shoving a flush is possible, but since villain can't have the nut flush and the board is paired even that has to be discounted some. I expect anything you beat to check behind on river and a lot of hands that beat you to check behind also. Against most villains I'm more worried about 55/44 or a flush then 88, but I'm still not calling that river.

There are some pathological maniacs and bluffers who might shove with worse on river, but they never play the hand that way. They are raising more preflop, and betting more on flop and turn. And even most of those are giving up on turn here a lot.

OK thanks a bunch I see what you are saying. That makes a lot of sense, the board is pretty scary for an overpair. I will probably go again next week, take the rest of the week off as my roll is like 10BI :/

will post results

thAnks

sr1129

1: your 3b shows strength, we don't care much about the $90 stack but when V over shoves it should be a fairly easy fold.

2: V makes it 10x your raise...you have $10 invested and end up shipping...not good.

3: at minimum shove the turn. You really should have raised the flop but it has to go in on the turn. Also how do you have the 3c twice?

Anytime you run into KK vs AA, or even QQ vs KK, its a cold deck. You didn't play hand one THAT bad. Yes you could have found a fold, but it was a tough spot. Hand 2 is a cold deck. Hand 3 is the only one you should get on yourself about. You should have got it all in on the the flop definatley by the turn. Anytime there's 7 to a hand (0r 5 fo that matter), lots of variance.

LoL @ saying it's a "cold deck" because you run QQ into KK or KK into AA. Sure it's a tough spot, and it's a ****ty spot, but that doesn't justify lighting money on fire. Folding QQ is sometimes the right play and even folding KK pre can be the right play in certain situations. Shipping in another 100+ bbs when you should know you are beat is completely unacceptable. You are essentially just throwing away hours worth of profit with one bad decision.

I notice that no where in your descriptions are you mentioning villain tendencies, history, or competency level. This is an important part of the equation when figureing out what to do.

sure let me elaborate. Hand 1 short stack villain is a standard casino player, but appears to have an idea about what hes doing. I was 100% positive he had a strong hand based on his tells i.e checked his hole cards, quickly looks away and tries to act non chalant. V2 on that hand was what appeared to be a good reg, I think he walked +800 that day. I tanked for quite a bit pre flop, post was the ****** special by me. I was really close to folding pre. Those things considered adding to why it was a bad play.

Hand 2 was against and older TAG white guy. He was winning, and aggressive on the flop, nittier on the turn and river. I had no type of live tells on him and he was directly to my right. I wasn't thinking so much about him raising be ten times by raise. My line of thought was 250 behind, 170 in the pot...folding is just sickening with kings but calling is almost worse. Is this the wrong way to think about it? This is another spot where I think I can't make a habit of folding Kings, how many times out of ten when I get dealt kings is the other guy going to have aces? I can definitely see how an older white guy making it 100 pre is eyebrow raising. But he seemed like a decent poker player, when thinking the hand through at the table I couldn't see why he would raise so big with aces which is why I thought A-K.

Hand 3

Main villain who shows 88 for the boat on the river against my flopped wheel is an older degeny black guy. Scratch that, border line between degen and LAG because he did seem to understand the game to an extent. This more so describes his post flop play though. Pre he was reasonable for the most part.
Once again to clarify the mis type about the flop it was 3s 4c 5c and the turn 3c
He talked ALOT during the hand, especially on the turn because I was tanking quite a bit trying to decide if he had a flush. I interpreted this as weak and it was as at that point he was holding two pair and I had a straight.
The river he continued to talk big after his shove, obviously he can back it up at this point because he binks the 8s.

I thought that if he didn't have me beat on the turn the worst thing that could happen is a 4th club hitting the river. He said after the hand when I asked him that he would've called if I shoved the turn and I don't believe him at all. I don't know how anyone could call all in with 8d8c on a 3s 4c 5c 3c board so I thought I could get more value out of him. But as QuadJ points out anything lower than a straight probably checks the river so in hind sight I see that I am not really giving myself a chance to get anymore value than if I check shove the turn.

thanks

-sr1129

I will also add that these three losing hands happened within like 2.5 hours, it was brutal so my history with these guys is next to none

All three hands are bad play according to my book. Definitely hand #1 and #3 should be folded preflop for sure. The #2 with KK is a little problematic. I would not go all-in preflop with KK but that's just me and am sure many dudes will disagree on this one.

One must be able to sometimes fold QQ or KK preflop when the situation calls for it. I have folded both KK and QQ preflop in the last 4 days, and both times I was showed aces. Its poker...we arent playing jacks or better.

Far to many 1/2 players will ship in their stack with QQ and KK preflop without any thought, and when they get showed AA, immediately dismiss it as being cold decked like the above poster. There are times to lay it down..and when playing 1/2, and facing a 3-bet or a 4-bet preflop, it must immediately come under consideration. If the villain is wild, then we gota get it in. If it is some tight old man, who hasnt shown a pulse for 3 hours and just 3-bet me, Im folding every time.

Also dont call preflop raises with A2o OOP. Those stories rarely end well.

Hand 1:

Fold to the 4-bet, 4-bet ranges at LLSNL are almost exclusively KK+, AK and usually weighted to KK+ barring special reads.

Hand 2:

Well played and unlucky. Villain is 3-betting (not 4-betting) here, so his range is much wider, and read-less I wouldn't expect such a large 3-bet from Aces.

Hand 3:

Fold PF, A2o is garbage and you are going to be OOP. Not sure what the flop and turn are since it looks like there are two 3c in the deck. Assuming you flopped a straight (with a FD out there), raise the flop big. Way too many turn cards that will kill your action or your hand here. As played, you turned the ace-high flush draw shove the turn (because again, there are a number of river cards that will kill your action, and villain's line is more indicative of an overpair than a flush). River is meh, hard to put him on a boat here given he raised PF and hard to put him on many flushes when you have the Ac. That said, this line is rarely a bluff and barring reads most people don't value shove worse in this spot. All this could have been avoided by just folding pre though.

Grunch: it's hard to lay down Queens but hand one I think you can find a fold

Hand two you definitely should have raised more, but running into aces when you have kings just sucks... The same result would have happened no matter what but in the future you definitely should raise to more than 10


Hand three, fold pre-flop... At least that the flop once you crushed it...88 would prob still call

If you are really going to fold Kings any time somebody pushes pre-flop you are very exploitable

There is a time and a place for folding Kings pre-flop, but a lot of the people in this thread are making it sound like a common occurrence.... There are extremely few times where I would ever do that, and most of those would take place in a tournament... People go nuts pre-flop with Jacks queens Kings and ace king all the time in LLSNL... It would take a pretty big raise and then a raise on top of that to get me off of kings

Some guys will only make aggressive actions with the nuts preflop. Some will see this as a good squeeze spot and apply pressure with good hands (that you crush) or even bluffs. Really need more information on villian before you make your decision here. Edit: Just saw your second post, this sounds like the type of guy you can fold KK to preflop. Not sure why you don't think he would bomb it preflop with AA, why would he want to possibly price the whole field in with a smaller bet?

Hand 1 Is an easy fold without very special table dynamics.

Hand 3 You can find a fold because he's not triple barreling without a big flush or full house, period, unless he's a maniac which should have made it evident before now. And fold preflop ffs.

Thanks for all the awesome advice and feedback. I have played close to 20k hands online mostly single and double tabling and have done pretty well in the past but these live casino games are a different animal even from home games I have played. Its also the most money I have played for as well and hearing thought processes from guys who have been there and done that has helped quite a bit.

On the way back from the casino I was reading about down swings and run bad etc etc and I read that either you really are running bad or you were playing bad when you have a down swing. I have come to the conclusion it was a bit of both. Because I KNEW the hand with queens was bull****, esp since I was so close to folding pre in the first place. But from what I can tell I made mistakes in my play and to compound it ran like dog **** at the same time.

Eager to get a little more money in my roll and hit it fresh next week.

thanks again

-sr1129

I didn't think he would bomb like that pre with Aces because outside of Praying someone has QQ or KK (like myself )he's getting no value. Almost any other hand folds. But I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment about the type of villain he is, makes a lot of sense. But I also agree with another pp that it feels exploitable to fold there. Part of what makes it so sick.