History: Villain has played very tight over the course of 2hours, rarely having to show hands due to big preflop raises and cbets on dry flops. Villain rarely limped which is rare in live 1/2 nl. Previous semi big hand between myself and villain, villains raises to 12 on the button, I flat with AQs in the SB, everybody folds. Flop is AJx, I ship my short handed stack, ~75. Villain calls with AK, I turn the Q, river blanks and I ship the pot. I made a joke in poor taste. Said sorry bro, then I thought about how I hate when ppl say sorry but don't mean it, followed up with, "not really, I should stop saying that, bad beats are just a part of poker". During the hand I didn't think any ill feelings were harbored towards me but after seeing the results of the hand obv. villain labeled me as a donk or a punk, maybe both.

This limp call was uncharacteristic of the villain so I assumed that the villain had a suited connector/small-med pair range of hands. I believe monsters are re raising here. On the flop I wanted to represent QQ+ and find out where I was at. I think the rest of my play was somewhat standard, not sure. Effective stacks are hero ~250 villain ~200

Preflop: 4limpers, villain limps in hijack position, Hero (AK) raises from the button to $17, everyone folds to villain who calls.

Flop: (~40) 10 8 3 rainbow.
Villain bets $25, Hero raises to $75, villain calls.

Turn: (~190) 5 (stilll a rainbow board)
Villain checks, Hero checks

River: (~190) A
Villain shoves ~100, Hero Calls


I felt that pre villain was either set mining or playing a one gapper, suited connector type of hand. I also felt he opened his range due to his read/animosity towards me from the hand described earlier. I raised his flop bet to represent a big overpair and to also determine the strength of his hand. His flat call of my raise had me thinking 8's+, although it took a bit of time for him to call. His flat made it hard to determine if he flopped the set or if he had a pair bigger than 10's, although I think in both situations he may repop all in on the flop. On the turn I was thinking about folding to a shove so I decided to check behind. I think calling his river shove is somewhat ok based on pot size. Am I running into a set/ two pair combo most of the time here on the river? Is 3to1 on the money good enough to make this call most of the time? Let me know. Thank you in advance for any responses, whether they are trolls or genuine input/advice.

Side note: Was my sorry, not really comment a douchebag move, bad joke or light banter (half the table laughed if that matters any)?

Don't put results in the first post, b/c it can influence the advice you get. I didn't even see that till I gave all my advice anyway, but it's just a good idea. As for the joke, it happens. Just realize it may make him gun for you later on.

I don't like the flop raise. Maybe he cbets 100%, I have no idea, but have you seen him donk before? The only draw is 97, but realistically what is a nit donking here? If he's steaming b/c of the last hand, he's going to shove on you or call your raise with weak pairs b/c he's angry. It's not going to make him more likely to fold here.

IMO, I would just fold to his donk. You have nothing, and he hasn't shown a bluff yet.

Turn bet would be absurd. Nit bet/calls and the board bricks. Betting 100 there is burning money.

River is like a happy call here. You cannot fold getting 3-1 with rivered TPTK that looks like it isn't in your range at all. The only hands I'd really worry about are AT or A8 here, since I'd have to figure sets would shove the flop anyway.

Do not raise to "see where you're at." IMO it's one of the most overrated concepts there is, especially with 100bb stacks. If you really want to see where you're at b/c you think he's bluffing total air, you could always just call the $25. I still wouldn't vs a nit, and I wouldn't trust a 1/2 nit who is steaming b/c you just beat him to fold a pair of tens here because you're "repping QQ+."

Fortunately for you he was steaming, and you sucked out on the river, and he shoved so you got $100 more. Still don't like the flop play tho.

AP, you got very lucky and river call is a must. The advantage of a flop raise is:

1) You aren't seizing control of the hand
2) You may get villain to fold
3) If villain flats, then he almost always checks turn so you have the the option to barrel the turn to take it down or check behind. The flop raise/check turn also costs you less than floating villain on two streets

But tbh, given stack sizes are you ever checking turn with QQ+ or raising flop with it?? it might have been better to flat flop shove turn, or raise flop shove turn, to rep an overpair.

It would suck to have a situation where you whiff river completely and have to fold to his shove, having put in 50% of eff stacks in the pot. This is a big mistake I see in this hand. so either fold flop or continue with the story you are telling and jam turn

I considered C/C, C/F on the flop. I decided to take a more aggressive stance to the "donk bet" this time with plans to fold to the shove obviously. I opened pre rarely at the table during 2hours of play so I felt that the villain in question would give me credit for a hand of JJ+. I felt that the pre raise could push off the A10's, A8's, mid pairs, etc. It wasn't just to solely see where I was at in the hand although I do understand your advice.

I think the big problem during the hand was the fact that I didn't understand his anger towards me. He was pretty frustrated when he stormed off but during our session he seemed cool and calm and played basic TAG. Thanks again for the comment/advice.

In retrospect, I agree that with line on the flop I have to shove that turn based on the pot size and our stack sizes. That was the plan before I made the flop raise. I tightened up on the turn though and checked. It's been awhile since i've played seriously and consistently, I need to remove these mistakes from my game. Thanks for the advice, I will continue to post so I can identify mistakes and see how glaring/terribad they are.

I'm still stuck on the flop donk by the villain and can't get ATs, or a flopped set out of my head. The river shove seems to confirm it.

That said, I don't like the flop raise followed by a turn check. You made a plan and then changed midstream.

Fold flop or float and decide on turn.

River is a fold regardless of the odds against a VERY TIGHT oppenent. V. has 33 or 88.

I would play the hand 100% the same way here and you gotta cryingly call and hopefully don't get shown set or A10, would be super LOL if he turned his JJ/QQ into bluff against your 'kk'

I felt the same way after he flatted the flop and started seeing 88 and 1010. The mid stream change to the plan was an error and is something I need to work on.

I'll update the OP with results later tomorrow.

I don't think a very tight opponent calls a raise OOP or limp in with A10 ss, or calls a 3 bet on flop with A10.

TAG's like to spend their time watching post-flop betting patters and then changing their play when the time seems right.

As to position, if Hero has been consistently c-betting, he actually has good position for the flop. So, yes ATs is in his range.

There is no distiction made for V as being TAG or just tight.
His relative position post flop could include A10ss in his range, but calling 3 bet on the flop makes it very unlikely.

Regardless, I think it is a fold on the river.

You describe villain as a tight player. So if you really believe his preflop range is pocket pairs and suited connectors, and he's a tight player, I'd weight his range toward sets on the flop.

Also, what kinds of hands are you trying to make fold with this raise? Do you think Tx is folding? Do you think 8x would donk the flop? I don't think the flop raise makes much sense.

Grunch

In my experience you're not getting a fold nearly often enough to raise the flop. Shutdown when he donks. River is an obv instacall.

Pre I thought his hand strength was decent until the flop bet oop. I planned to c/r flop and shove the turn. I thought at the time that my c/r on the flop insinuated that im getting that last ~$100 in on the turn to the vil. Definitely think I could've played the hand better on the first two streets although after seeing his hand, I may need to re-evalute my reads in general. Not sure if I severely misread his play up until that point or just didn't recognize tilt/anger. Adding results now since i've received a lot of good replies and won't be able to update for awhile later today.

Results: Villain shows 10 2 (pair of 10's), Hero wins the pot with A K (Pair of A's).

Him flipping over 10 2 off threw me off a bit. This is where I began to assume that tilt/anger may have played a bigger factor in his decision making than previously thought.

His call on the flop definitely was tilted and angry. Your raise on flop was basically telling him you had an over pair. His $50 call was very poor for a TAG ABC Player. He called because of his image of you.

Villain donked the flop and called hero's raise, that puts a T in his range. Being tight, or TAG usually limits the kicker.

lol at the results.

grunch: snap call river, we can't fold.

i hate the flop play.

Your desription of V threw us all off. He was basically a spew monkey just clicking buttons.

I definitely gave the villain too much credit. I still played the hand pretty poorly post flop though