Hero has a very tight image I havnt played many hands that were of any importance. I havnt got past the flop due to my hands not connecting, I am down $100 at this point and have topped up my dwindling stack. The table has been playing very loose.

The Game:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...m-game-838114/

Preflop: Hero is dealt 95 in the big blind 4 players limp in and SB completes and I check my option.

Flop: 5 players and me see the flop of 455 The pot is $12, SB checks and I bet $12, EP folds, MP calls, CO folds, BTN calls, SB folds.

MP is a old guy and he has about $200 in front, BTN has only $170. I have seen MP limp in and call a raise with hands like Q6s or J7s. BTN again has a wide range, any over pair to any 4 and even hands like 76, 63, 74, I guess they both could have hands like that. Maybe some flush draws.

The turn is a blank T the pot now is $48, I go ahead and bet the pot $50, MP calls and BTN folds.

River is Q the pot now is $150 and I put $135 all in which covers MP who calls very quickly.

Anyone play it different?

MP is very loose and has a wide range preflop I think he has played the last 5 hands in a row. I put him on a flush draw on the flop I guess he cant call my bet on the river with a busted draw and if I check to him he will never bluff. I can beat a lot of the 75, 65, 85, 53 combo hands that he would limp with but this guy could have any 5, like J5s, Q5s, T5s, A5s, K5s, etc maybe he has pocket 4's and calling me down knowing that I have a 5 and will never fold.

And I can beat all the over pair hands, 66, 77, 88, 99 and Jacks I think he raises with Queens or better preflop. I think this player would call with pocket 3's on the flop but never call three streets with them, same goes for two overcards, I could see this player call the flop with a hand like AJ or KQ but folding when he misses.

The guy never bets he loves to check and call and only really betting his monsters.

Trips =/ set. Unless utterly clueless in a limped pot, people know you have the 5 if you keep pushing it. When they know your hand, it is easy to play for them.

Yeah but he could have a weaker 5.

agreed.

even with a weaker 5 it is a split pot, since there are Q and T. don't see much value in the river bet since if he has flush draw or straight draw he's missed and as mentioned I'd be hesitant to call you with even pair Q after you've showed so much strength.

You played it a bit too fast.

That seemd to suggest betting smaller on each street maybe even checking the river?

Limped pot, that somehow gets it all in on the river with 9-5 flopping trips without any raising, and just you betting.
Hmm. His call on the flop and turn don't seem suspicious to you? He seems like the kind of guy that would chase a flush or straight on a paired board?


I think you played it WAY too fast. Your hand looks a lot stronger to you then I think it is in a 6 way pot.

I'd like smaller bets on each street.

Is your shove on the river for value? Are you expecting worse to call you?

Yes my shove is for value I really do think that his range has some overpairs and also some 5's that we know chop to be good here.

Overpairs that he wouldn't raise before the flop? Or on the flop? Or on the turn?

The problem with playing the hand the way you did is that your hand is totally face up. Despite villains skill or ability you are allowing him to play perfect poker against you.You call from the blinds, and suddenly get aggressive when there is a 2 fives on the board. I honestly expect to see villain show up here with A-5 all the time given his call line.


The point I am trying to make is this: Awesome, you checked from the blinds and hit a big hand... now you need to get value yes, but you also need to be careful as this is a limped pot against a player who is calling you down. I think getting value on the flop is great, but when villain calls on the turn also we might have to slow down just a bit. However with your bet sizing, you pretty much committed yourself to an AI on the river.

He would limp with 6's, 7's, 8's and 9's and maybe call with 33 here.

Also I was the big blind so I got to see the flop as it was limped. These types of players and in paticular this play calls to often. I felt I was good on the flop, I doubt he would ever raise with an overpair (like 7's) either flop or turn and still call a river bet.

What flops or should I say, what hands am I looking to get it with verus these players? I have been reading a lot of posts in my threads and it comes across to me as if I have to fold a lot of hands and only bet the nuts.

Don't take what I am trying to say is that you should fold here, that is out of the question.

What I am saying is that even though your hand looks really strong, it looks stronger than it really is in this spot.

As I said before, your hand is face up to the villain, so he can play optimally against you.

What would I change in the hand? Bet sizing mostly.

I would like $9 on the flop.

This leaves us with $39 in the pot on the turn.

We are always betting the turn here, to both protect our hand against draws and to get value from the hands you put in villains range that you beat.

$28 on the turn should be good.

Now, on the river we have a pot of $95 instead of 150

By my calculations, this leaves you with $160 behind at this point.

On the river your decision becomes much easier, you can put out a good value bet of $60 - $ 65 and you at least have THE option of folding to a large enough shove should it come to that. If you played the hand to get stacks in by the river, then you played it perfectly... just don't be surprised when he calls you down and has you beat given his line.


You are still getting three streets of value from hands that you beat, however you are not completely committing yourself for the times you run into the nuts. If villain has a hand like K5, A5 or any other combination of a 5 that doesn't boat up he is most likely going to be calling in this spot instead of raising on the river anyway since you said he likes to call instead of raise and doesn't really have the move in his arsenal.

Hopefully some of what I said makes a little sense, if I am totally off base or wrong please someone correct me.

I probably only bet 35 into 48 on the turn. I'm worried about a stronger 5 and and I don't really want to announce I have a 5 by potting it.

River is a strange situation. There are so many draws he just missed and I don't think he calls with a 4 or a T. I'm also still a little worried about a stronger 5. I check/call and give him a chance to bluff.

Stop looking at what you can get your stack in against a player, but rather how much can a worse hand put in against your hand. It varies by villain and is a street by street evaluation. Bet that. Sometimes, the amount a villain that has a worse hand can call is zero.

I dont understand are we only ever betting smaller in the hope that somehow this player bluffs, what I am more worried about is missing value from his hands that he cant get aay from.

If we bet small do we ever fold if they push back? If no, then why cant I bet as much as I think they will call?

I'm not as much in the bet smaller camp (though I think it does have some merit) as in the "look what happened on flop and turn". You pot bet both and got called by an old guy. His hand has to be ahead of yours. I expect him to show up with A5, 44, TT, etc. pretty much every time.

This hand is a bluff catcher by the river. I guess the bet smaller line would allow you to c/c the river and snap off his bluffs while not getting stacked.

I don't mind betting 3 times, he may put you on a flush draw/76 and stick with his initial read, calling you down with a PP or a T that he hits on the turn. His range of trips should include {A5o, A5s, 75s, 65s} though as you can see, with the offsuit aces, there are 4 combos of A5 and 2 combos of 7s5s/6s5s, plus you're behind more if we include King-5's, which he would be less willing to raise.

The problem with the $50 turn bet is that is blows out the weaker hands, while pot committing you against the better hands. For this reason, I like a bet in the $25 to $35 range, unless he's such a fish that you think he's calling you all the way with a two pair, and is more likely to see your big bet as bluffy than value-seeking.

In the game that OP always describes in his "I missed the flop with AK and nobody will ever fold and underpair, even if I tripple barrel" threads, this hand is played perfectly.

I probably bet less on the turn... if you had A5, betting more one the turn to set up a river shove makes a little more sense, but even then, you're probably only getting called by a 5+ and limiting your value against other hands.

Sorry you flopped trips and got beat. He either had 44 or 45.