Does anyone happen to know any good literature free or otherwise that will help me with postflop/bet sizing/extracting value? I do a decent job of folding when im beat, but i cant ever seem to get payed off when i actually hold a hand.

I play 2-2 and 3-6 nlhm

are you sure you have given yourself a good sample size of hands? live players notoriously pay off good hands.

i am just beginning to go through my reading list so i can't speak from first hand experience since i haven't read most of these yet. but my research has suggested the following as a good recommended reading list:

1. No Limit Hold'em - Theory and Practice
2. Harrington on Cash Vol. 1 & 2
3. Professional No Limit Hold'em Vol. 1

there should be a good deal of content on bet sizing and post flop play in these, and they will improve your game in other ways as well.

Just bet 3/4 of the pot on every street but the river. On the river, bet 1/2 the pot, unless you hold the nuts. If you have the nuts, push every time. Follow that, and adjust as you gain experience, and you'll do fine.

Check out the Concepts of the Week in the micro FR forum, particularly the value betting one.

As a start, you need to begin thinking about what is the maximum amount the second best hand will be willing to call. On some streets, it is zero.

One paradox in poker is that the stronger your hand is, the less likely someone can have a hand strong enough to play.

Table will tell you, in practice what some standard amounts are, it's easy to pick up on what the standard preflop raise amount range is, and for a lot of 1/2 players, bet sizing vs. the pot size doesn't ever make sense. They are committing to paying off a certain amount $xx, not a certain fraction of the pot, if that makes sense? At least most of the players I've seen at 1/2NL.

Once you get a feel for these players tendencies to pay off with 2nd best hands, ride the train to valuetown.

Also, Super System 2 is required reading.

I agree with this observation but somewhat disagree with the conclusion.

Take our made hand against villains drawing hand. Whether or not the player making the call understands that he is or is not getting proper odds to make a call, if you are laying improper odds (ie not charging enough) it is -EV over time. It is like a store selling their product at below cost.

When you figure to have the best hand, what you want is players to call you with improper odds whether or not they understand that is what they are doing. that is +EV.

Therefore I believe understanding bet sizing is crucial regardless of the opponent.

I agree that the Harrington on Cash and Prof. NL Holdem books discuss bet sizing fairly thoroughly. I have not read SSII but I thought the NLHE section was a reprint of the section from the original SS. If so Doyle almost ignores discussion of bet sizing other than a footnote that says "a reasonable sized bet is about the pot or some such thing.

Harrington also does a decent job of addressing the geometric growth of the pot and pot control which are also key.

"No Limit Hold'em Theory and Practice" does a excellent job of laying out the factors to be considered in various situations for extracting value.

Rereading the post, I think I didn't make a ton of sense, more my thoughts were confined to getting value bets paid off on the river (when the pot has swelled to a decent size) as opposed to betting for value on earlier streets.

Thanks everyone for the great responses.

Yeah I understand that and fully appreciate the notion that villains are thinking in terms of absolute dollars too. On the opposite hand I have to say I have been experimenting a little more with overbetting rivers in spots I used to valuebet when I think or know villain is On overpairs, 2 pairs or stronger and have been surprised at how often I have been called.

Again though as you point out they say something like "that's a lot of money out there".

So i went out and got Harrington on cash v1&2(came in a bundle)
Small Stakes No-Limit Hold'em - Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, Matt Flynn
Hold em Poker For Advanced Players By Sklansky and Malmuth
and No Limit Hold'em Theory and Practice.

Lots of reading to do, and practice practice practice. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Would be interested in your thoughts on the various books and authors as you get into them.

Honestly, the best way to do it is to just put in a lot of volume, and post a lot of hands on this forum. You might get a lot of 'lol you suck, why bet that much/that little', but it'll really ingrain it into your skull so that your valuebetting becomes instinct rather than something you have to scrounge your mind for and try to think back on an article you read.

I couldn't agree more. With NL I have learned much more from just sitting and playing for 5-8 hours. This forum has helped me a bunch too, not just reading about hands but also in terms of how to think about the game.

I started playing poker last fall and at first I remember reading some phil hellmuth book or something. Told you to play tight, etc. I remember being super weak and fit/fold player. I think I've gotten a better understanding of NL now though than last year.

There is no free literature that you can get help with you with post flop play. Get the 2+2 books related to NL and you will be in good shape if you study hard and apply the concepts at the tables. But, you've got to study very hard many times over and over and over again, not just read the text. STUDY it!

Enjoy,

Che,