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Old 02-25-2021, 12:48 PM   #1
tmo1120
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Line Check with KK

roughly 200 eff. , 1/2 NL

I raise to 10 from EP with KK, 3 callers,

4 way to a F: T94(hhs) (40) , I cb 30 , only the SB calls

T:8s, (100) , I bet again for 55 this time, SB now x/r's AI for about 110 more

how does my line look here? Do you call turn? Do you ever check turn and allow a free card seeing how QJ did get there?

thanks for any feedback
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:36 PM   #2
QuadJ
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Re: Line Check with KK

Preflop if a raise to $10 is getting 3 callers then it isn't big enough. At 1/2 you really need to adjust to the table and see how many are calling over time. I would start with $15 from EP.

On the flop $30 is fine. As played not happy about it but I'm calling. Pot is something like $320 and it's $110 to call. I have to be convinced villain is never betting worse. Turn is an awkward situation because of SB's stack. If you bet again your committed so that is really the primary consideration. Are you willing to get your stack in against SB? Then go ahead and bet turn. If not then check and see if you can maneuver to a check showdown. Without more information on SB I have no opinion on betting turn.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:51 PM   #3
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Re: Line Check with KK

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Preflop if a raise to $10 is getting 3 callers then it isn't big enough. At 1/2 you really need to adjust to the table and see how many are calling over time. I would start with $15 from EP.

On the flop $30 is fine. As played not happy about it but I'm calling. Pot is something like $320 and it's $110 to call. I have to be convinced villain is never betting worse. Turn is an awkward situation because of SB's stack. If you bet again your committed so that is really the primary consideration. Are you willing to get your stack in against SB? Then go ahead and bet turn. If not then check and see if you can maneuver to a check showdown. Without more information on SB I have no opinion on betting turn.
SB is L/P player who would most likely call with his spade/heart draws here or even hands like JT or 9Xhh , so that's why im struggling to justify paying him off or justify giving him a free card, i didn't realize the pot odds were 3 to 1 for some reason so i think i do just have to call at that point like you said
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:55 PM   #4
josofo
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Re: Line Check with KK

solver checks turn. if it bets kings twice is snap folds to a turn check raise here. it calls with queens jacks and sets and qj, and 10-9 and 76. (it mainly folds 98 if it has it)

it doesn't think its close on turn if you bet call it off it is losing 5bb in ev which is a lot if you run these.

having grinded 1-2 a lot like vs some people sure bet,bet and get it in. but i agree with the solver on this connected of a board you want to to be careful with your over pairs.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:01 PM   #5
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Re: Line Check with KK

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solver checks turn. if it bets kings twice is snap folds to a turn check raise here. it calls with queens jacks and sets and qj, and 10-9 and 76. (it mainly folds 98 if it has it)

it doesn't think its close on turn if you bet call it off it is losing 5bb in ev which is a lot if you run these.

having grinded 1-2 a lot like vs some people sure bet,bet and get it in. but i agree with the solver on this connected of a board you want to to be careful with your over pairs.
Solver X's turn 100%? i was thinking this is probably a good turn card to X bc QJ comes in and he could have some 2p and sets as well but i also think a lot of his TX will pick up a gut shot and he could have a spade draw or a heart draw so i was torn looking back at the turn here
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:35 AM   #6
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Re: Line Check with KK

I'd X back the turn. Besides QJ, the board is getting rich in opponent's calling range - sets and 2 pr.

Giving a free card to FD, so somewhat important if we hold the Kh. Still Xing, as a bet commits ~1/2 stack.
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Old 02-26-2021, 12:37 PM   #7
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Re: Line Check with KK

I usually don't open smaller than $15 unless I'm in CO or OTB.

I'm never checking the turn there are so many pairs + draws that we can get value from. It's close on whether or not to call off. Readless, I make the crying call given this price as it could be pair + turned OESD/FD.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:27 PM   #8
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Re: Line Check with KK

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I usually don't open smaller than $15 unless I'm in CO or OTB.

I'm never checking the turn there are so many pairs + draws that we can get value from. It's close on whether or not to call off. Readless, I make the crying call given this price as it could be pair + turned OESD/FD.
These were my thoughts, hands like JT,QT, spades, 9X of hearts , all these hands will call another bet but prob X/f to a river bet on a brick

Only problem is that i think a L/P player at 1/2 isn't going to semibluff with this range they just wanna call and see if they hit so despite the amazing price and the over pair i think i could actually make a fold with KK
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:59 PM   #9
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Re: Line Check with KK

Pre is too small in my games, and obviously in yours, too. Just curious, what is your image?

Vs. a loose passive, I think folding on the turn is fine. I don't think you "have" to call the other half of your stack if you are most likely beat, and vs. a loose/passive check/raise, you are drawing thin if at all.
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:05 PM   #10
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Re: Line Check with KK

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Pre is too small in my games, and obviously in yours, too. Just curious, what is your image?

Vs. a loose passive, I think folding on the turn is fine. I don't think you "have" to call the other half of your stack if you are most likely beat, and vs. a loose/passive check/raise, you are drawing thin if at all.
probably not a very high VPIP compared to rest of table but i will be raising more often pre and also running bluffs more often than average player so i don't expect to get too much credit
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:29 PM   #11
QuadJ
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Re: Line Check with KK

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Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
SB is L/P player who would most likely call with his spade/heart draws here or even hands like JT or 9Xhh , so that's why im struggling to justify paying him off or justify giving him a free card, i didn't realize the pot odds were 3 to 1 for some reason so i think i do just have to call at that point like you said
If villain calls flop with any part of board and any draw then you just have to bet the turn and ride out the variance.

You can't pin down the range of loose and bad opponents. You just have to accept that sometimes you are going to be betting into better hands but statistically they have to have worse hands more often.

The only real clue you can go by here is knowing how good a hand villain needs to check/raise the turn. The problem is there is no particular general pattern for this. Some will feel committed at that point with any reasonably good draw, others will always turn up with a hand that beats one pair, the worse will get it in with worse one pair. Most will be some sort of mix and you just have to learn what a particular players pattern is.
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:40 PM   #12
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Re: Line Check with KK

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If villain calls flop with any part of board and any draw then you just have to bet the turn and ride out the variance.

You can't pin down the range of loose and bad opponents. You just have to accept that sometimes you are going to be betting into better hands but statistically they have to have worse hands more often.

The only real clue you can go by here is knowing how good a hand villain needs to check/raise the turn. The problem is there is no particular general pattern for this. Some will feel committed at that point with any reasonably good draw, others will always turn up with a hand that beats one pair, the worse will get it in with worse one pair. Most will be some sort of mix and you just have to learn what a particular players pattern is.
Pretty much this. It's 1-2. V is going to have sets and two pairs raising to protect against straight/flush draws, will have the straight/flush draws himself, or will just be spazzing out.

AP, I call down here. Agree with everyone else saying pre should have been bigger, but admit it could be table specific.
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