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Line check KJs on BTN Line check KJs on BTN

03-15-2011 , 04:07 PM
Live $1/$2, max $200 buyin.

Stacks:
Villain 1: $300
Villain 2: $25
Hero: $215

I am ignoring Villain 2 as he is loose passive, I have little history and he has no stack.

Villain 1 first showed up about 4 days ago and I have felted, or doubled through him for $100+ four times now (all +EV spots for me, but 3 of them were, ultimately draws). About 20 minutes ago he shoved for $100 on a dry flop with TT and caught a T, cracking my KK, so he is feeling brave.

In these few days he has proved himself to be somewhere between a LAGtard and a maniac. He also wants my ass badly.

4 players limp
Hero raises to $12 on the BTN w/ K J
SB (Villain 1) calls $11
MP limper calls $10
all others fold.

Pot: $35 (after rake)
Flop: K K 5

As the flop was coming out, someone bumped into me from behind causing me to miss anything as the flop was coming out.

Check, check, Hero bets $15
Villain 1 calls and I now pick up an engagement tell.
Villain 2 folds.

Pot: $65
Turn: (K K 5) 2

Villain checked, hero bets $30
Villain check/raise to $60

Pot: $155
I have ~$160 left ($130 after calling the raise).

I think his range is heavily weighted to a K (but not filled up), 0% 22, ~10% 55 and 10% pure air.

Before someone says: shove/call/fold, I'm going to want to know why.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:00 PM
If this villian is bordering on maniac, wouldn't he 3-bet pre-flop with a better king (KQ+)? Most maniacs I've played with would, and this would make me inclined to shove. He's folding with his 10% air hands, and obviously calling with 55, and we still have 7 outs for the win. I think this player is rarely showing up with a better king here, but he is certainly calling with any worse king.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:00 PM
I'd say flat and see how much villain bets on river to determine if correct play is to bet, raise, or call (or fold if you really think he would only shove with KQ or better). Reraising turns your hand face up that you have a king and your preflop raise tells him your king probably has him outkicked so you're only getting called/raised by hands that have you crushed whereas villain may still call a value bet if he checks the river.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:02 PM
Grunch.

If he has a K it's about the kickers and it depends how many K's he flats pre with.

If he flats pre with every KXs including AK and KTo+ and we add in 55 pokerstove says

(this is read dependent - if he likes to raise you can probably drop AK + KQs idk)

Board: Kh Kc 5s 2c

Hand 0: 52.682% win:-41.55% tie-11.14% {55, AKs, K2s+, AKo, KTo+}
Hand 1: 47.318% win:-36.18% tie-11.14% {KdJd }

With the dead money out there and the fact that he's a 'lagtard/maniac who's out to get you I can't see how we can fold trips here.

Calling sucks as we're putting in ˝ our stack and we can't put in ˝ our stack and fold.

Reraise.

Last edited by JustinJude; 03-15-2011 at 05:07 PM.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJude
Grunch.

If he has a K it's about the kickers and it depends how many K's he flats pre with.

If he flats pre with every KXs including AK and KTo+ and we add in 55 pokerstove says

(this is read dependent - if he likes to raise you can probably drop AK + KQs idk)

Board: Kh Kc 5s 2c

Hand 0: 52.682% win:-41.55% tie-11.14% {55, AKs, K2s+, AKo, KTo+}
Hand 1: 47.318% win:-36.18% tie-11.14% {KdJd }

With the dead money out there and the fact that he's a 'lagtard/maniac who's out to get you I can't see how we can fold trips here.

Calling sucks as we're putting in ˝ our stack and we can't put in ˝ our stack and fold.

Reraise.
Where's KQo, and KJo?
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:23 PM
I call and reevalute river. We dont need to protect our hand and there
are not many cards that can kill our action vs trips. So i dont see any need
to raise here.
Calling also has the advantage that he can continue with air
(though that is not a huge concern here).

Btw. i am would bet more on the flop and turn to set up a river shove.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asg82
Where's KQo, and KJo?
K2s+ includes all suited K's including KJ & KQ
KTo+ includes all non-suited K's KTo and above including KJ & KQ.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:40 PM
Shove the flop
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKon
Live $1/$2, max $200 buyin.

Stacks:
Villain 1: $300
Villain 2: $25
Hero: $215

I am ignoring Villain 2 as he is loose passive, I have little history and he has no stack.

Villain 1 first showed up about 4 days ago and I have felted, or doubled through him for $100+ four times now (all +EV spots for me, but 3 of them were, ultimately draws). About 20 minutes ago he shoved for $100 on a dry flop with TT and caught a T, cracking my KK, so he is feeling brave.

In these few days he has proved himself to be somewhere between a LAGtard and a maniac. He also wants my ass badly.

4 players limp
Hero raises to $12 on the BTN w/ K J
SB (Villain 1) calls $11
MP limper calls $10
all others fold.

Pot: $35 (after rake)
Flop: K K 5

As the flop was coming out, someone bumped into me from behind causing me to miss anything as the flop was coming out.

Check, check, Hero bets $15
Villain 1 calls and I now pick up an engagement tell.
Villain 2 folds.

Pot: $65
Turn: (K K 5) 2

Villain checked, hero bets $30
Villain check/raise to $60

Pot: $155
I have ~$160 left ($130 after calling the raise).

I think his range is heavily weighted to a K (but not filled up), 0% 22, ~10% 55 and 10% pure air.

Before someone says: shove/call/fold, I'm going to want to know why.
So basically you think 90% he has a k. I think your wrong, villain couldn't have a K here 90% because there is only one K left. What about combo Axc draw or a OESD.

As played I hate the betsizing on the turn. You should be betting almost full pot. The reason being that the board has become drawy, you want to charge draws. Now you get c/r now your lost. My gut feeling says shove.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks
So basically you think 90% he has a k. I think your wrong, villain couldn't have a K here 90% because there is only one K left. What about combo Axc draw or a OESD.
What 3-4 is calling a $15 flop bet?
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:04 PM
His range is more PP's and the case K. That said if pairs are in his range that aren't boats it's a clear call on the turn. A big raise will make him fold 66+ and you only have to sweat 2 outs on the river. I don't see many combo draws showing up here. He would have had to float the flop with A3 A4 in hopes of catching runner runner?

Your small bet on the turn makes it look like you are full of **** and he could be testing the waters with 99 or something like that. I call and ship 90% of river cards. If he goes all in then I start to worry.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asg82
What 3-4 is calling a $15 flop bet?
Villains image is LagTard or maniac. Villain could have A 5 or 4 3 he does not have a K.

Thoughts?
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:12 PM
I've known many a LagTard and I can't think of a single one that would call with 3-4 on a KK5 flop. Axc, may be. but flatting with 4-high?
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asg82
I've known many a LagTard and I can't think of a single one that would call with 3-4 on a KK5 flop. Axc, may be. but flatting with 4-high?
Small bet on the flop, lagtards never put you on a hand and they love small back door flush draws. Standard float for a LAG.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:23 PM
The check-minraise is a bit scary as standard livetards will do this with basically the nuts. Based on reads he is raising AKo/s so we're really only behind 55/K2/KQ. Note that due to the suits of the cards on the flop, villain cannot have K5s, as the only K left is the Ks and the 5s is out there. Also the only K2 hand villain could conceivably have is Ks2s.

Villain did not pick up a draw, lol to that idea. Hero's <1/2 PSB may seem like weakness to villain who may have something like 66/77 trying to either get hero to lay down his overs or possibly a better PP.

Now what do we want to do. We are obviously not getting any better hands to lay down by raising but we will get his stack if he has the case K. He is folding all his airballs which means obviously we get no more action out of him. If he does have a K, however, the money is going in on the river no matter what. Because of that, and the fact that we have position, I'd smooth call and ship the river expecting to see KT/K9 most of the time. Folding is out of the question.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:29 PM
Let's just trust OP's reads here. He's the one who's been playing against this player.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:38 PM
standard float 3c4c obv
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
standard float 3c4c obv
you'd be amazed what you see people do live. i'm guessing you've seen a lot of it, but there is no rhyme or reason what some bad players will float with.

i saw a guy put in his stack with 79o on a 10 6 2 board the other night. Called a $15 raise OOP pre, then called a bet, saw a huge raise and another raise to where if he called he was all-in for like $120. He donk calls and hits the 8 (another guy said he folded 88, who knows, but nice 2-outer if he did, huh?) to take a $400 pot from AA and JJ.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
you'd be amazed what you see people do live. i'm guessing you've seen a lot of it, but there is no rhyme or reason what some bad players will float with.

i saw a guy put in his stack with 79o on a 10 6 2 board the other night. Called a $15 raise OOP pre, then called a bet, saw a huge raise and another raise to where if he called he was all-in for like $120. He donk calls and hits the 8 (another guy said he folded 88, who knows, but nice 2-outer if he did, huh?) to take a $400 pot from AA and JJ.
Wow, but you know if he floats 4c3c he also has back door straight outs too. So a lag would do it.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-16-2011 , 11:55 AM
think I am just calling here on the turn with the intention of never folding/always getting it in on the river.

Just on the of chance villain has air or accidentally starts to play well and folds a worse Kx if we jam turn.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-16-2011 , 12:11 PM
Preflop it looks like you know your table well (a $12 raise would typically get all limpers to call at my table), so I guess I don't hate it. Typically I'd either raise more ($10 + BB/limpers) to try to get this HU or even claim the dead money, or if I don't think that's going to happen, then just limp.

On this flop I would almost consider us WA/WB here (although usually that's more for HU I guess?) as I doubt there's too many worse Ks that call a preflop raise outta the blinds or limp/call (with the possible exception of maybe KT/K9). Drawless board, I don't see much reason for betting the flop; maybe one of these guys catches enough on the turn to pay off our last two streets (or we lose less if crushed). If we had an A kicker I'd perhaps be more likely to bet as now there are worse Ks that could pay off on 3 streets (but with 3 Kings out, it seems unlikely anyone has one).

I don't know what to do as played. Can this guy ever show up with a worse K?

ETA: Not one other person thinks checking an early street here is ok? Am I that out to lunch? Are pocket pairs really paying off 3 streets of value here? And if anyone has the case K, methinks there's a decent chance a lotta of the chips are going to end up in the pot anyways (and do we love our kicker here?).
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03-16-2011 , 01:59 PM
Raise IMO
Line check KJs on BTN Quote
03-16-2011 , 03:00 PM
If you bet turn, it shouldhave been with intention of getting it in.
Line check KJs on BTN Quote

      
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