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Leveled myself or went with read? Leveled myself or went with read?

07-03-2014 , 12:18 AM
Have tons of history with this player and he tends to be very LAG early in sessions but gets stuck many buyins though late game tightens up and usually gets profitable on the evening.

Hero: 10 10
LAG ???

Game is 1-2 NL with avg straddle of 10 but some straddle up to 90 bucks throughout the night. The game is very good and I am the biggest winner lifetime in the game.

I am on the button with 10 dollar straddle and Lag flats the 10 as do two others. When my option comes around I make it 75 all day. Lag laughs hits the table and says Im all in. I call and he tables 10j

Flop 8 9 4
Turn 3
River 7

Final pot 880ish.

and he scoops it which sets up the hand in question about 3 rotations later:

I am on the straddle for 25 with K4

Same Lag flats and is only caller. I check my option and flop comes:

Effective Stacks:

hero: 780
Lag: 900

K J 4

Lag fires out 25 and I bump it up to 75. He tanks for a few moments and says Im all in.

I don't know if I leveled myself or what but I go into the tank for 3 minutes and fold. I couldnt give him anything but KJ...I dont know why I found the only hand that makes sense to beat me as his range but thinking back he would play all AK and AA hands the same way and perhaps even J4 Suited ( he is lag enough to flap with a J4 Suited thinking he could check raise misses.)

I fold after long tank and he shows me 8 5 off suit.... I dont let hands like this derail my game for the evening but I do tend to think about the line days later and try to improve.

Any suggestions for these spots?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 03:12 AM
Wow you really leveled yourself there! Cmon! 10J pre he makes that donk-push? He can of course show up w sets or kj but more often you are beating his range of hands . He sounds like he would also do this w AA QQ J4 A4 10Q AQ ... he usually tightens up but only 3 orbits ago he monkey tilted his stack off. Was there ever a better time for you to call his bluffy antics you are beating such a huge percentage of his donking range call him!

PPS. not being a dick just offering advice post 1/2 hands in LLSNL ( live low stakes no limit) best place for live 1/2 ?'s
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 06:31 AM
villain is obv an imbecile, snapcall
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:05 AM
Snapcall, high-five the dealer and try not to tilt when the turn and river go 6-7 (or 7-6 whichever you prefer).

I would actually assume that if villain tightens up when he's losing he's much more likely to do monkey-tilt crap when he's up.
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:30 AM
Should have stopped at "I tank for 3 minutes and......"

Now we all know he had 85o it is very hard to imagine anybody arguing for a fold.
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalRumble
Should have stopped at "I tank for 3 minutes and......"

Now we all know he had 85o it is very hard to imagine anybody arguing for a fold.
I think the JT hand pretty clearly illustrates this guy is spewing a lot here, though I do admit omitting results to allow for more discussion is a better way to handle hand histories.
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:45 AM
Yeah I can't really see folding but the OP does imply that villain likes to splash around early and take advantage of his image later on and that he is somewhat decent player as he refers to him as a profitbale LAG and not a spewy donk.

He jammed $400ish in with a chance to win $100 pre without showdown with TJo where his equity is 30%ish vs heros calling range.

In hand 2 he jams $750 in with a chance to win $120 if he induces a fold. Given we have K4 its clearly a call as even if we just add QT and J4 to the hands that beat us we have odds but maybe if we had K5 it would be closer without seeing results?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 03:57 PM
I guess what im asking for here is something along the lines of how do you not put people on monsters under the bed type hand. I dont know why I put him on KJ there but I went with my read and got shown 85 lol. Regardless I instantly put him on something big and I dont know why I tanked so long and talked myself out of looking him up. That said how do you guys when playing live againist a LAG but thinking player put him on ranges?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidigriffin
I guess what im asking for here is something along the lines of how do you not put people on monsters under the bed type hand. I dont know why I put him on KJ there but I went with my read and got shown 85 lol. Regardless I instantly put him on something big and I dont know why I tanked so long and talked myself out of looking him up. That said how do you guys when playing live againist a LAG but thinking player put him on ranges?
Well how do you normally range people?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
Well how do you normally range people?
Trolling? I struggle with putting people on ranges who are super lag and show up with weird hands often...thats why im asking?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidigriffin
Trolling? I struggle with putting people on ranges who are super lag and show up with weird hands often...thats why im asking?
Not a troll just curious as to what your process is and how are you struggling putting LAGS into that process?
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-04-2014 , 01:42 AM
Two things

1. This sounds like a crazy fun game. Where are you?

2. Vs people like this in the future, don't raise without a plan. If you raise know what you'll do. Of course this was odd since you rarely see an all in like that. But if you aren't gonna go with the hand, just call down.

3. You really can only go off of history you've seen. You are paying attention and saw the jt hand. Just use your knowledge and call. Plus think about it. If he has a set he's at least gonna raise smaller to keep you in.
Leveled myself or went with read? Quote
07-04-2014 , 01:44 AM
Also I assume he raises preflop with kk, JJ, KJ at least usually (or else he's not really a lag. He's just an L. Hah)
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07-04-2014 , 09:45 AM
LAG might raise KJ pre and would certainly likely raise JJ/KK.

So the most likely hands for LAG are 44(3), J4(6). Villain can also have stuff like AT/9T/QT, or bare Jx/4x type hands.

Given your particular hand and action he has very few legit value hands. Not to mention he might not even rampant shove if he had something like 444.

I wouldn't raise flop vs an unpredictable lag capable of this kind of spazz, if you don't have a plan facing a spazz.
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