2-3 spread, 300 max. Hero just sat down, I believe this is my second hand. Utg is MAWG.

Hero in bb with KsQc

Pre: UTG limps, mp limps, btn limps, sb limps. Hero raise to 30, 3 calls and Sb folds

Flop (123) : KhTh4d
Hero 50, UTG calls, 2 folds

Turn (223) : Ah
Hero checks, UTG 50

Fold. An unknown LLSNL player bets into this board, he has something better than you and isn't folding. He wants a call. As Mike Caro preached, if a villain wants you to do something, disappoint him.

Ship flop. SPR is 2ish. You have a FD on the board and there are a decent amount of bad turns for you.

You'll see this strategy used in 3bet pots on JTxtt boards in later positions vs wide ranges. Solvers will just open shove with SPR's of up to 4 with certain parts of their range.

As played I agree with Venice, fold.

Note he also uses a ridiculous sizing. One that’s never a bluff.

I used to use this mantra at limit hold em: the price you’re getting doesn’t matter when you’re drawing dead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I accidentally read the responses first so I won't respond to anything that's been said, but I'll add that I'm checking this pre. My raise range here looks like: 99+, ATs+, KJs+, AQo+.

What a table! I love it. Limp/call $3/$30!

Bet way more on flop. I'd go $80 - $100.

As played, fold turn And the check was OK vs. unknown.

Edit: Second hand at table I limp this from bb.

67o what sizing are you using on flop?

I would just see a flop here but I'm passive like that. Lottsa people can be passively limping dominating hands and at a loose table this preflop result is kinda standard (I'll leave it up to you whether you think it is a good one).

Preflop has setup an SPR of lol ~2, so not exactly a lotta postflop room to move. If we think preflop is for value, and since we offered fairly poorish IO of 13:1, you could argue that we're simply committed here and should commit ASAP. If we think someone will stab at this pot if we check, we could just check/jam. Otherwise we could just bet large and get the rest in on a non-stupid turn. ETA: I also have zero problem with open shoving at this SPR on this board, given how we played it preflop.

As played this is literally the worst card in the deck as it completes every single draw, plus it isn't even impossible that dude was ahead on every street anyways. I check/fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Can you elaborate on this? Either in general or for this hand what kind of hands get jammed?

In my experience, it's could be a "post-oak bluff"...I've done it dozens of times, very successfully.

When you bet so small, people tend to assume you're just trying to milk them and often they fold.

Of course, it's really dependent on the bettor...some players don't have that in their arsenal.

I'm with DooDoo - as played I like a shove

You’re also a poster on a strategy forum. That already puts you in like the top 25% of players. There’s a reason why sort of leaky but overall substantially winning live pros will use moves like small bet value and big bet bluffs is because in general, it works against level 1 opponents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So it is only on FD boards with straight draws on it. You need to have both. We are basically pushing our hands equity because over half the deck will significantly change the board. And it is only done at low SPRs.

For instance. It folds to BTN, he opens and we are in the SB and we 3bet QQ and he calls.

Flop comes JT4tt - QQ no suit of the flush is always shipped OTF at 100BB.

Because any Ace/King/Jack/Ten or heart will change the board. But this also assumes you are playing tough competition that always 4bet JJ/TT.

I wouldn't worry about it in a low stakes live game, maybe at higher stakes.

FYP

So... like others have said, flop bet is too small. I think $75 would have been fine, even though i see arguments for other sizings.

Turn i have as a shrug-call. If we are sure villain only has pair of aces or better, exploitative fold is fine, but i think we are still too high in range to give up. we can also consider turning our hand into a bluff on some rivers. River may also check through, which we could win a decent amount, as villain could make weak stab on turn with worse pairs and straight draw, etc.

We’re not very high in our range though. We have sets, two pairs, some straights and flushes, Kx with a heart kicker. It’s actually hard for me to think of many worse hands we have here. Maybe some middle pairs or backdoor diamond draws that bet flop at a low frequency.

Villain would have to be pretty bad to bet with worse for value and we just need to let him have it if he’s bluffing. We have better hands to bluff/bluffcatch with.

Summary: the crap we used to mock TAGfish for doing back in 2010 was actually correct!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too high in our range to fold to a 20% psb, especially when villain may have interpreted 50 on flop as weak.

(I am assuming V and H both have $300.) The biggest issue to me in this hand is that V is an unknown. He could have anything, be betting small for a million reasons, and we have no idea what he'll do on the turn. I'll save my $50 until I have more info.

If Hero gets some weird mojo from how V acts, plays with his chips, dresses, etc., maybe that changes things, but I doubt it.

I called the 50, river paired the 4, check check, I showed, he mucked, then 15 seconds later he said he needed his cards back and it was a chop. Not sure why he bet Kx on the turn

KITN to the dealer that took 15 seconds without mucking a discarded hand.

Oh it was well after they were mucked

If they are mucked they are unidentifiably mixed in with the muck and wouldn’t be able to be retrieved. Only the dealer can muck hands. It sounds like what happened is that the player threw his cards forward face down, the dealer left them there and after awhile the player decided to get them back and turn them up. In most rooms he’s allowed to do that and his hand is live, but discarded hands should be mucked by the dealer immediately. The dealer didn’t follow procedure or the room itself is using sloppy procedures.

I got the whole pot and his hand was never retrieved or seen

I fold turn.