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KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot.

08-04-2010 , 01:56 PM
I am interested in feedback on every street.


1/2 NL. Several deep stacks at the table.
History: very little. This is my 3rd hand at the table. I won a small first pot with a small suited ace from the same villain, but nothing of note in the hand. Villain seems somewhat competent, and willing to play. A big chunk of the table is drunk, and my initial read is that they are pretty bad on top of being inebriated ($$$).

Villain1 straddles from the button (MS straddle). He has $400 +, I am at $320 after buying for $300.

SB calls, BB calls, UTG +1 (very drunk) calls.

I hold KK.

I make it $24. (Thoughts? There were no preflop raises in my first two hands, and I am not sure how this table is playing. I normally would open for $15-17, but with the straddles I bumped to $24).)

All folds to the button (Villain 1). He calls.
SB, BB, and UTG +1 all surprisingly fold.

Pot: $55 after rake and BBJP.

Flop:
J107

I have limited range on the villain, but as he called $20 more, I am working with him having a PP 22+, a suited ace, or suited broadway. I am not sure if lower suited connectors fit his range for that raise and no callers in front. He seems competent, so I lean towards removing those hands.

I bet $40. (Thoughts? I usually lead for 3/4 pot with an overpair.)

He calls.

Hhhhhmmmm...I am trying to narrow his range here. He could be floating, drawing, or hit a piece and isn't sure if that was a continuation bet. Right now I feel like I don't have much information on his hand, but he has the "vibe" of a player that is aggressive and would push me if he was strong (big guy, Tapout shirt, sunglasses).

Pot: $135
Turn: 7

Not a bad card for me. J-10 just got counterfeited, and blocks other top pair hands excluding A-J from catching two pair on the river. Otherwise, it changes nothing.

I still believe I am ahead, and I am betting for value. I know I am committing with an overpair here, but if I check I lose initiative, and he can play for a steal against my weakness. I don't think a check achieves any pot control for me.
I bet $90. (Why? I think many hands I can beat call this and the draws aren't getting the right price. In retrospect, I think this should have been $115.)
He calls.

Pot is $315. I have $166 behind.

Perplexing. I can't see him drawing, other than with something like 10-10 and 9-9. Again, trying to narrow the range, A-J also sticks out here as a top pair hand that isn't sure if I have him beat our not. A-10 hearts, A-9 of hearts would be the only other likely aces/draws.

River:
A

Decision point: check or shove?
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:20 PM
If you shove anything you're ahead of folds and anything you're behind calls. If you check you at least give him a chance to bluff a busted draw.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:36 PM
I want some advice from the better players but here's my idea:

Given your read it seems likely that villain will bet turn if you check, 7 is a good card for you so I would check/shove on the turn. It looks like the perfect stack to do it with too.

input?
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
I want some advice from the better players but here's my idea:

Given your read it seems likely that villain will bet turn if you check, 7 is a good card for you so I would check/shove on the turn. It looks like the perfect stack to do it with too.

input?
I hate doing this on a two-tone board with a PF raise-caller, as there are so many flush draws in his range, I would want to charge the draws...if it were a rainbow flop, I would check it. If villain checks behind, we potentially end up with egg on our face.

The river is terrible, and I would likely check/evaluate. AJ is certainly in his range, and any flush combo-draws got there, too. If he checks behind, you win. If he shoves...so gross.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:49 PM
The preflop raise is a good size in a straddled pot. The bet on the flop is good and when he just calls you are always ahead.
I agree that the turn bet sizing is a little small...with all the draws out there I would probably bet just under pot...however masaraksh's idea to check raise here is pretty good if you peg the villian as being an aggressive player who will try to take it away. checking is not playing pot control as much as it is trying to induce a bluff from the villian.
On the river I am never betting because you only get called by better. I am probably checking and making a crying call if he bets. The ace is not the worst card in the deck but it's not great either...do you think the villian would have raised qk on the flop?? What about the nut flush draw?? There are still a decent number of draws that don't get there...if he bets I would expect to be good about half the time but given the bloated size of the pot I think we have to call.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
I want some advice from the better players but here's my idea:

Given your read it seems likely that villain will bet turn if you check, 7 is a good card for you so I would check/shove on the turn. It looks like the perfect stack to do it with too.

input?
I can't fairly call it a read, just the overall impression of the player as aggressive. Mostly some stereotyping on my part.

I pondered the check/raise on the turn, but the board was so draw heavy I was afraid a thinking player would take the free card.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
I can't fairly call it a read, just the overall impression of the player as aggressive. Mostly some stereotyping on my part.

I pondered the check/raise on the turn, but the board was so draw heavy I was afraid a thinking player would take the free card.
My thinking is that an aggro live player could "put you on AK" when you check the turn. In that case, he would fire a bet with a pretty wide range which is obviously made hands and/or tons of possible draws, in that case you check/shove in his face and he's in a pretty gross spot since KK is likely ahead of his range. If he takes a free card/checks behind then you have a good idea that he's either playing pot control with a made hand thats weaker than KK or has a draw. You get to see the river and value-bet if appropriate...
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
My thinking is that an aggro live player could "put you on AK" when you check the turn. In that case, he would fire a bet with a pretty wide range which is obviously made hands and/or tons of possible draws, in that case you check/shove in his face and he's in a pretty gross spot since KK is likely ahead of his range. If he takes a free card/checks behind then you have a good idea that he's either playing pot control with a made hand thats weaker than KK or has a draw. You get to see the river and value-bet if appropriate...
Interesting. The only knock I have on this line is if he is on the draw, he gets to make it for free and then I miss value when he folds the river.
I need to think about this one some more.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:31 PM
I lean towards limp/raising preflop from EP with AA/KK when I'm new to a table and there is a straddle on.

As played, I check/call the turn to give villain a chance to bluff and to keep the pot size in control.

As played, shove the river and hope to get called by a J. It sux if he was on an A-high flush draw or has AJ but there are plenty of other Jx hands he could have, he shouldn't have called on the turn with a flush draw and the A looks like a good card for us to bluff causing villain (who obviously thinks he is a good player for straddling and not being afraid to call our raise preflop) to call us light. This is why I check the turn because otherwise the pot size just gets out of control and there are plenty of cards that can come on the river that scare us (when in fact we're probably still going to be ahead).

Last edited by Nogyong; 08-04-2010 at 04:47 PM.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:32 PM
line looks good so far. well played.

river is a check, not sure if id call or fold to a bet... i think since he straddled the button he can really have a wider range of hands. the only play here is to check and hope he has QJ or sum bs.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
I lean towards limp/raising preflop from EP with AA/KK when I'm new to a table and there is a straddle on.

As played, I check/call the turn to give villain a chance to bluff and to keep the pot size in control.

As played, shove the river and hope to get called by a J. It sux if he was on an A-high flush draw or has AJ but there are plenty of other Jx hands he could have and he shouldn't have called on the turn with a flush draw. This is why I check the turn because otherwise the pot size just gets out of control.

villains really never gonna call with just a jack, also check/calling the turn for "pot-control" is pretty bad. you beat J10 on the turn now, what hands are you afraid of? we have to protect against draws on the turn, its a must bet.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 04:53 PM
NH so far OP, we need to bet the turn imo. c/c river, villian could bluff missed draws, value bet worse hands (Jx), and might fold to a riverbet, as theyl probably put you AK(as live players do)
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-04-2010 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashgamepoker500
vcheck/calling the turn for "pot-control" is pretty bad.
On the turn there are plenty of hands villain checks behind with or makes small turn bets with including draws and top pair hands. Which is fine by me.

We don't need to play for stacks with this hand which is what happens when we bloat the pot by potting the turn.

A lot of the time :

i) we check/call the turn then villain checks behind on the river.
ii) villain checks behind on the turn and then bets when we check to them on the river.

We only really face a tough decision when villain pots the turn and shoves the river which he doesn't do that often IMO.

Last edited by Nogyong; 08-04-2010 at 05:24 PM.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-05-2010 , 01:36 PM
I think one was has died down, so...

-I checked the river. Villain thinks about it and stares me down. At this point I will call a bet in the neighborhood of $100. I think he has a jack and is conetmplating whether I have an ace.
He finally checks. I table KK and he sighs and flashes me QJ of diamonds.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote
08-05-2010 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
I think one was has died down, so...

-I checked the river. Villain thinks about it and stares me down. At this point I will call a bet in the neighborhood of $100. I think he has a jack and is conetmplating whether I have an ace.
He finally checks. I table KK and he sighs and flashes me QJ of diamonds.
Beat me to it. I c/c a moderate bet, fold to a big one. NH.
KK from UTG+2 in straddled pot. Quote

      
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