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KK on T948 KK on T948

05-12-2024 , 07:26 PM
1/2 NL. I think effective stacks about 300. CO appears to be in his 30s and appears Chinese, competent player, kind of TAG. I open raise in MP to 10 with KK, HJ and CO call. The flop come T94,r. I check, HJ bets 15, call, call. Should I have led or checkraised? The turn is an 8. HJ checks, CO bets 55, hero ???
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 09:46 PM
Which part of China was he from? Northern Chinese I lean towards a fold, but against someone from Guangdong it’s at least a call, mixing in a raise at a small frequency.
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 09:52 PM
I think flop is fine to check raise or call. Turn I call and reevaluate river.
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 10:00 PM
I think just leading out and continuing to bet with strong hands like this is the best way to win the most in these games.

Check raise happens so infrequently and is almost always strong so even calling station players will fold top pairs when we check raise here.

As opposed to just going pot pot pot you can get paid a lot more.
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 10:25 PM
I didn't cbet because the middle card flop didn't look good for my hand or range. If I had cbet, I definitely would have checked the turn making it T98.
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker
I didn't cbet because the middle card flop didn't look good for my hand or range. If I had cbet, I definitely would have checked the turn making it T98.
Check T98 flop though, not T94. Theres a lot of value to be had. You dont need to worry about balance at all. Most of these players will not be thinking about whats good for your range whatsoever. Checking the 8 turn makes sense though.
KK on T948 Quote
05-12-2024 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker
I didn't cbet because the middle card flop didn't look good for my hand or range. If I had cbet, I definitely would have checked the turn making it T98.
You didn't 3bet, you just open-raised. If a single preflop raise isolates your holdings that significantly, you want to mix in raises with more hands I think. Sometimes this board texture can get you in trouble (the 8 is gross), but betting on boards that people think you missed can get you paid.
KK on T948 Quote
05-13-2024 , 08:50 AM
Multi-way and OOP, I like to start with a check, but I'm going to be check raising at a fair frequency. I think this is a good spot to do it.

Reasoning is that in a SRP, this flop can hit our open range with combos of TT, 99, T9, and TXs with higher kickers, plus we'll have all the over pairs and OESD combos of QJs and 87s, and occasionally even 44. Our hand is probably best now, but we're unlikely to improve, and we won't like a lot of runouts if we just go into check call mode.

We can get value from all our opponents' TX, 9X and draw combos, define our opponents' ranges, and deny equity from a lot of hands that can catch up. Check raising a strong hand as the PFR protects the rest of our checking range whenever we're OOP, and gives us the ability to rep a strong range on a lot of boards.

If we check raise and get 3B, it's an easy fold, but our line is likely to cost us less than calling down to the river unimproved.

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KK on T948 Quote
05-13-2024 , 01:04 PM
That's the kind of flop you have to assume will get calls when you cbet, so just bet. C/r'ing is just blowing everyone off all the hands we crush.
KK on T948 Quote
05-13-2024 , 04:06 PM
Opponents aren't going to call a c-bet with JT or A9 but otherwise fold all those hands if we check-raise. They're not always folding QJs, 87s, 88, JJ, or A4 with the BDFD. A lot of those hands are going to want to continue, and our KK unblocks all those hands. If you're only check-raising 2P+ here, you're going to be really easy to play against.

This is a fairly dynamic flop. Top pair is likely to change, and what hands make the nuts is likely to change. Our c-bets are going to get lots of calls, yes, but we'll have no idea where we are on lots of run-outs, because our opponents will call our flop c-bets so wide.

So when we c-bet KK here, and check the turn, we're opening the door for opponents to float us wide and steal the pot on a run-out that doesn't favor our range. But if we check-raise, we're going to build the pot, deny some equity, define our opponents' ranges, and possibly even disguise / strengthen ours.

I'd be check-raising here with AA/KK, T9, TT, 99, 44, QJ with a BDFD and 87 with a BDFD. I'd be c-betting QQ/JJ, ATs / A9s / A4s with a BDFD, and KQs / KJs with a BDFD. Basically I'm check-raising the very best hands for value and the highest-equity semi-bluffs, and c-betting the 1P hands that benefit from protection or have some ability to improve, and the sneaky draws that can barrel a fair number of turns.

If we check-raise flop, our opponents shouldn't be continuing with as many draws or combos that would improve on the 8. They shouldn't call with T8/98, 77 or 66. They might call with QJ, and maybe 87. They're probably calling with JJ, if they flatted JJ pre.

But their continue range should be more heavily weighted towards strong TP holdings that can continue against a big turn barrel, or even bet turn for value/protection if we check turn on a card that isn't as good for our perceived range.

C-betting small when we're OOP and barreling off with just an over-pair makes it easy for our opponents to play perfectly against us. If we're going to c-bet this flop, we should at least go big, but that actually wins us less than check-raising.

Case in point - HJ bet $15 into $30, and CO called. If we x/r'd to $60, maybe they both fold, and we win the $50 they put into the pot. If we c-bet $20 into $30, and they both fold, we only get the $20 they put in pre-flop. If we c-bet $10 into $30, and they both call, then we check-fold turn, we lose $20.

We shouldn't be worried about opponents folding to our x/r when we're OOP with KK. We should worry more about donking off a lot of money barreling into 2P+ with just an over-pair, or allowing our opponents to play perfectly against us because we're playing so face-up.
KK on T948 Quote
05-15-2024 , 04:35 AM
Raise more preflop.
KK on T948 Quote

      
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