1/3 game

Main villain (btn) sat down maybe 5 hands ago. Mid-50something, beige ballcap with some fishing related thing, no facial hair.
Limper and SB haven't done anything surprising, loose/passive/straightforward.

Btn stack $300ish, SB and limper in $150-200 range, hero covers.

1 EP limp, hero raises to $15 with K K. BTN, SB, limper call.

Flop 832 ($56, 4ways)

Checked to hero, ?
What's your action and plan? I'll post my action after a few responses...

I’m certainly betting for value here. Maybe in the 25 range. I’d plan to call a small check raise if I know they would raise with flushes other than the nuts. I’d fold to a jam.

Bet $15-$20, call a raise and reevaluate the Turn.

Bet $15

All right I will move this along. It seems as if a small size $15-25 would have been preferred. Any reasons are welcome.

Offsuit wheel combos with A love this flop, pocket pairs I can see peeling one, and 8x combos.

In the hand I bet $35. Btn took 10-15 seconds, looking off the table into the distance with a blank expression, then called. SB, limper fold.

Turn 4 ($125, hu)
Hero check, btn grabs some chips without counting, and puts the stack down with force. It turns out to be $65. Hero calls.

Ranges are polarized on monotone flops, and in spots with polarized ranges we bet small with both our value hands and bluffs, since only super-strong hands/draws can continue.

Treat it like you’re first to act on the River on a AKJT9 board. If you have a Queen OR a bluff, are you betting large or small?

Because most players have no idea what equity they are going after. Or the crazy number of combos that are beating KK in your hand compared to a two flush board. And you haven’t even seen a turn. If Im playing KhQh and flop is 2hJh8s, im unconcerned with villain having AhXh when a third heart hits. Happens like 2% of the time you make a K high flush. In your hand if a fourth heart comes there is a damn good chance your K high flush is garbage. Monotone flops are the worst played hands by 8/9 players at every table. The only players that play them better than other hands are generally OMCs who only continue with the freqking nuts. Which i saw three times last 10 hour session. OMCs winning stacks on monotone flops. Saw them get paid off by trips. By two pair and a lower flush. Lower flush is a cooler. The others were players having zero clue how to continue and why they are

That’s another point where theory and the reality collide. If your good at poker or use a chart for preflop play, you’re not calling a bunch of random offsuited hands preflop. That means very often the majority of hands that flop a flush draw are actually pocket pairs. Everything else is either a made flush or a hand that doesn’t contain a flush draw.

That’s not the case for your random loose passive small stakes player who shows up on this flop with JTo with a heart and are very much interested in continuing with the hand even against a bigger bet.

Unless we're in the CO, I would limp in, but that's my style.

Against the smaller SPR stacks, I suppose (?) we could consider ourselves committed and attempt to play for stacks ASAP? But I don't think I would consider myself committed against the larger SPR stack. So I think (?) I don't consider myself committed. Our hand is fairly invulnerable if we're ahead (unless of course we're up against the nut flush draw). I think I would either check or do a very small bet (the latter just protecting our equity against the world, most of whom individually likely have very little equity but combined might have enough where giving a free card might not be the best play). If everyone had like a $150 stack and SPR 3, I would probably PSB to shove turn.

ETA: Kinda gross spot by the turn. I think we have to call with our overpair + flush draw, but we're now creating a $255 pot and will only have $185 left for the river (so just a ~2/3rds PSB left) which will set us up for an ugly decision. The more super confident you are in these ugly decisions, the more preflop is standard. I despise these spots, so I avoid them preflop.

GcluelessNLnoobG

You would overlimp KK here after EP limps in?

On non Button straddled pots, I don't raise until I'm in the CO+ (mostly going for the overlimp/reraise but otherwise comfortable with going to a multiway high SPR pot if it happens to limp thru). I'll allow myself to raise in the HJ in Button straddled pots but only if effective stacks allow me to setup a comfortable postflop stack off spot (or I perhaps have zero worries about CO/Button outplaying me postflop). I never raise in the LJ-. So, yeah, 4 limpers to me in the HJ in a non Button straddled pot and I'm overlimping AA. Not declaring it to be right or wrong, but it has worked ~fine for me and always puts me in a spot that I'm comfortable playing.

But, I also play at tables where overlimping to reraise from most positions works out very well: i.e. 10 handed tables, where the majority of pots are raised, the raises are relatively large, and multiple callers is quite common (in other words, your standard live 1/3 NL table).

GcluelessoverlimpingnoobG

dont overlimp pre for the love of God

We need to make a sticky like BBB in the SSL forum saying to “bet your damn hand”.

Lol, there are plenty of situations where checking your damn hand is far better than betting it (and you're a solid poster that is well aware of that).

Gnothatin',justsayin'G

When he bets like that he usually has a good hand. I would hope to improve, but I like it so far. Red flags go up as I call though (proceed with caution) he's behaving like he flopped a baby.

The sticky was for limit, it was to remind people to make thin value bets on the river.

Yes, would totally agree with that for Limit. And of course betting your own damn hand often applies to NL too... but not always.

ETA: Grease, were you an old Live Low Steaks Limit poster? Your name seems familiar but I didn't think it was from just the dark side here...

GcluelessingeneralnoobG

I was a SS and MS reg back in the day, definitely. 2005-12ish, back into it now the kids are a bit older and I have a casino nearby that I can play at with relative ease.

I call turn too and proceed with caution too.

The 50+ year old Low Stakes makes me think he has at least a set if not a flush, but the banging on the table could be a Strong = Weak tell.

All right here's the whole thing
1/3 nl
Preflop $300ish effective w/, BTN.
Other callers have $150-200
EP limp, hero $15 KK, BTN SB and limper call

832 ($56)
Checked to hero,bets $35, btn does a thousand yard stare and calls, others fold

Turn 4 ($125)
Hero check, btn grabs chips and plunks em down, dealer says $65, hero calls

River 8 ($255)
Hero checks, villain verbally bets $100 then slides in a stack

I thought this too but also considered it's a way of releasing built up excitement at having a good hand...while also perhaps reversing a well known strong=weak tell.

I would fold. If he didn't slam the chips down without knowing how much he even bet, I would probably call. It's close, but he's not likely betting if he can't beat a pair at least. No fault in calling at all either.

“Loose passive. Straight forward.” You are almost never good here but the price is so good. The worst feeling at 1/3. When you are put into a blender by a player you later learn never bluffs or bluffs all the time.

You beat AhXo misses and 99-qq. Im not sure how you are good 1 out of 5. I would have made a nit fold based on population read but hoping you called and got shown QQh

One of those hands where only the results of what the opponent held will let you know the correct play on the river.

Loose passive straightforward is the read on SB and limper, which I included as a way of determining optimal preflop and flop play.

It is also typically the population read so applying to unknown doesn't seem too wrong.
My population read is also "$100" is a strong hand and that people often don't bet wrt pot size.

That seems like my experience also