$1-$3 , i have $250, villian has me covered and is a very good player

KK in late position.

UTG raises to 12, 1 caller , then villian calls in MP, i make it $55.

all fold to villian who calls.

Flop ($136) is 9s Jh As

villian checks to me, hero?

Check behind

Do we have the Ks?

C-bet $80

First off what hands are you giving villain. If you think an ace is possibly in his range then lead for 1/2 pot and fold to any bet. If you dont think he's ever having an ace here you can either lead for value or check and hopefully induce villain to bet turn..

Bet $60.

doesnt $60 accomplish the same thing?

bet/fold ~75
(after reading some of the above responses 65 would also work, I normally just c-bet ~2/3 pot with my entire range)

Assuming villian is "good", I don't think he'd call with small or medium pocket pair to set mine, and I don't think he'd call with low-med suited connectors - you just put in 20% of your stack.
So, what can he have? QQ+ (maybe JJ), AK seems to be a RR, especially since you are in late position with a, presumably, wide range.

What does that leave as a calling range? TT, JJ (even those don't make a lot of sense b/c you are in late position), AT+, maybe some high/med suited connectors, but, I discount those because of the lack of implied odds. With that, a call is in order, Ax just makes up too much of villain’s range.

If you included high suited/med suited connectors in his range, bet about $90. But, if villain is good, I don’t think his range includes enough w/o and A.

In real time, I probably bet about $90. But, I think the better decision is to check it. If my PF range is correct, we are behind. Unless I think villain’s calling range is wider PF, the call is right. But, I don’t think his range is all that wide. Further, in my experience, there are far easier places to make plenty at SSNL. Why risk it?

For all those advocating a bet - what is villain's PF range?

Ok, we need to define what the OP thinks is a very good player. To me, a "very good" player is has an extremely narrow raise/calling range in the UTG position. It is narrow enough that I'm not worried about a possible FD with the ace out. Therefore, it is a WA/WB situation. Our problem is that nothing that we beat in that range that will call a cbet. There is nothing that beats us that is going to fold.

Therefore, all a cbet does is confirm that we're ahead or behind. That's not a good reason to bet. It is better to think about how we can extract any value from a worse hand. I'd check back. On the turn, if I know if he's a "good" player, I'll have a good sense of whether he can bluff at the turn often enough to make a call. If it goes c/c, then I'd make a $60 suck bet on the river.

Venice - Villain is in MP, not UTG. UTG folds to hero's raise.

What do you give villain as a PF range?

i bet $90 , from the responses above i see it was too big , he thinks for a few seconds and shoves.

hero?

having put in basically 60 percent of your stack can you really fold?

He's probably expecting you to c-bet and I think there's a good chance he will raise if he has any Ace or big draw, wich would put us in a ****ty situation. Probably just check behind. call the turn if a safe card comes...

What do folks put villain on for PF range? When I PokerStoved my PF range, hero was way behind on the flop. Ax makes up a BIG part of the range. Is villain really calling with suited connectors and the like given stacks?

QFT. Everyone who bets by default - take this to heart.

A question for you Venice. How 'bad' would the player have to be for you to bet the flop? I'm having a hard time thinking of players I would cbet against with this hand.

crappy flop to make a large cbet....you may as well just stick your stack in....either way you're only getting called by a hand that kills you. and you bet/fold after sticking 90 in on a cbet.

i would check and see what the turn brings. maybe a small bet on a dry river if he checks again. might be an opp for thin value...but you really don't beat much that calls.

My bad, but it doesn't really change the situation that much. The range is narrow and a bet is never folding a better hand.

I suppose you can construct a drunk player that thinks you're bluffing with air and will stack off with QQ. I'd still wait to the river to bet because he won't want to bluffed off the hand. But the read is a really good player.

after putting in $145 out of my $250 stack, i fold.

thats why i'm asking how bad that was. not cbetting seems best now, but since i bet $90, should i have folded.

i guess i have to fold , just shows how big of a mistake my $90 cbet was

Check:
For the sake of pot control, you could check behind. You're not really worried about free cards, most likely he either has an AK/AQ or TT-KK. You're either crushed or crushing.

Bet: The pot is large enough that if you lead out, it is tough for him to call without an ace, since your bet will probably be in the $70 range.

Assuming he calls only with hands that beat you, but he bluffs 20% of the time with hands that you beat if you check... the best scenario is to bet and find out if you're ahead. It is very hard for him to shove his stack with a hand like QQ here.

Another interesting play is to make a feeler bet - bet $40 or so into the pot. This isn't done very often anymore from what i've seen.

The problem with this is the fact that $40 is an obvious feeler bet to the point where villain can bluff raise with any two cards. $90 is way too big, but $60 is half pot bet, not so strong but not so weak and doesnt telegraph our hand.

If you would like to bet $40 more than bet 60, I advise checking the flop then. The $40 line wreaks of jj-kk scared of the ace on the flop

Interesting. Perhaps I should make $40 bets on made hands and see if it works.

Learned a new way of thinking. Like this. What does WA/WB mean?

Way Ahead/Way Behind - as in we are either crushing opponents range, or we are crushed by his range, nothing in between.

Hope villain dies during the flop and than min bet

*grunch
$45 pre. b/f OTF small or check back/give up.