Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? KK, flop set, how to maximize value?

02-21-2015 , 08:38 PM
$1/2 NL. Max BI $300

Played a hand recently and wanted to know how to best get value.

Villain is young, hoody guy. Just lost 2 BI's fast and seems loose.

Hero has a tight image, hasn't 3 bet at all. Folded a weak Ax hand to villain earlier to a $30 river bet, with $20 in the pot, board had A xx, 3 hearts to a flush.

Stacks, about $200 for both V and Hero.

Hand:

Hero limps in early with KK. Villain raises to $10 in HJ, folds to Hero who re-raises to $30. V calls.

Flop: A K x rainbow (pot ~$65)

Hero first to act, bets out $30. V calls.

Turn 6. (pot $125) Hero bets $60-70, V calls.

River x. (pot ~$250) No flush, straight. Hero?

Thoughts on how to best play the hand to get max value. Should I have checked on the flop to induce, with such a strong holding. His 2 calls made it feel like A/10 minimum, very unlikely he has AK, as I have the KK.

Last edited by Jazzed23; 02-21-2015 at 08:52 PM.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:50 PM
Should be an inconsequential shove OTR, V would be calling 80 to win 320. If he is calling off 60% of his stack and isn't willing to call getting 4:1 he was drawing crazy thin anyway.

Could have gone 40 OTF to set up for an ~PSB OTT, but without any draws out there for him to chase I'm fine with the line you took.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:55 PM
What is the question here? The pot is $250 and you have like $100 left? Anything other than shoving seems totally crazy. FWIW I don't like limp/rr'ing but it looks like it worked in this instance.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-21-2015 , 09:03 PM
Well you know how hard it is to bluff a fish off any ace. That's about the only thing that pays you off (except for that one reminding K) so you might as well bet it
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-21-2015 , 09:04 PM
Should I post what happens on the river? Of course I shove, and he folds in 5 seconds!

So I was wondering what the heck he had to call the first 2 streets with. Maybe AJ or AQ... certainly not a small pp, or a Kx.

Or he could have been gambling and played an Ax suited hand.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-21-2015 , 09:05 PM
What was strange is he folded so fast. He must have put me on AK or AQ minimum.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-22-2015 , 12:14 AM
Super easy shove on the river.

I'd rather just come out raising pf.

Don't check the flop against a loose player. You'll often just see it checked by villain, and then you'll have the problem of only getting 2 streets to get paid off on instead of 3. Also, if that ace gets him to fold on the flop, then he is likely folding the turn if you wait until the turn to bet.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-22-2015 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzed23
What was strange is he folded so fast. He must have put me on AK or AQ minimum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzed23
Hero has a tight image, hasn't 3 bet at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzed23
folds to Hero who re-raises to $30.
I believe the 2nd and 3rd quotes might hold a clue to what is being said in the first quote.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-22-2015 , 08:38 PM
Flop is fine.
Maybe a touch bigger, but whatever.

Turn is fine. Maybe a bit bigger, but whatever.

River is fine. He has missed draws in his range that he won't call with no matter what, and he often calls with AX. Esp if he turned or rivered a second pair. Shove is pretty much the only right move unless you know that he has a high river bluffing frequency.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-22-2015 , 10:30 PM
Fine on all streets. Probably should be slightly more on flop and turn.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-22-2015 , 11:37 PM
Bet more on flop and turn. I think you lost $30-50 on this hand.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 07:06 AM
Flop bet 40

You flopped a set, and the only hand calling you down is going to be an Ace, and most players don't flop a set just to fold it

Betting 40 on the flop sets you up for a slightly bigger turn bet and a smaller all in on the river
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage
Flop bet 40

You flopped a set, and the only hand calling you down is going to be an Ace, and most players don't flop a set just to fold it

Betting 40 on the flop sets you up for a slightly bigger turn bet and a smaller all in on the river
Well said. I don't like betting half pot where there is any type pf draw. At least not very often.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 09:51 AM
It certainly would be interesting to know both V holding and what he put you on. You barely 3-bet and he flats .. then continues twice on a AK board. Where does he think you are at? Betting into him on this board with your image? Perhaps your 50% PSB on the Flop gave him some hope, but I really have no clue where he is calling the Turn.

You are never getting a call here OTR for your stack unless beat or he improved OTR. Although it's the 'right' bet, I would've just put out $50. This is because he is on his 3rd bullet and the bet would've pissed him off a bit to 'show the dealer' what he is doing to him.

I am surprised he called the Turn, feel blessed to have those chips with the way you have laid out this hand. GL
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 01:37 PM
thanks for the replies, yeah I really was trying to figure out what he had.

Mind you this is $1/2, and he did seem like a loose player. So he could have been calling down with a weak Ax suited hand and with the river shove figured I had it.

Also, what about checking the flop to see if he bets? and the C-raising....would that be a more profitable play?
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 06:25 PM
A c/r will make you look even stronger and will encourage him to fold on the flop. And it could easily get checked by villain which only gives you two more betting rounds to get his stack. I don't like it.

Villain could also be more reluctant to bet after you showed so much strength pf by 3-betting.

Also stacks are small enough that you can easily set up a shove on the river by just betting the flop and turn.
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote
02-23-2015 , 06:41 PM
bet all-in he's going to call any bet here with Ax, I like the way you played this he could be on tilt so your probably best to bet every street
KK, flop set, how to maximize value? Quote

      
m