Live 1/2 (max buy-in $300)
V is sitting almost 700bb deep with ~$1200 on the table
Hero is sitting with $280

Hero opens UTG (KK) to $8
V (CO) 3-bets to $25
Hero 4-bets to $80
V calls

Flop KQ8ccc
Pot = $183
Hero leads for $120
V calls

Turn 3d
Hero jams
V snap calls and flips over A7cc

My questions are: 1) Did I misplay this but not raising larger on the preflop? Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. 2) I feel like my bet on the flop was too large? Maybe I should go for for more of a 50-60% raise size. 3) How bad is jamming this turn?

Overall, this was a very confusing spot for me. I had been card dead for over an hour and finally picked up this premium hand. Admittedly, I was definitely a little antsy and wanting to get it in which contributed to my play but I am very confused and curious about what I could've done differently in this situation. Thank you all in advance for the advice and help!

Sizing pre is fine, if anything could make it lower to create an illusion of fold-eq. As it is now, you have put in over 25% of your stack pre, which indicates a lot of strength. I am not saying you should 3-bet smaller in general, but just for this situation it could be an option to entice opponent to come over the top.

With $183 in the pot and $200 left in your stack, I don't think it matters that much what you do on this flop. We are not getting away from top set no matter what we do. There are so many worse hands we can get value from.

My only gripe is that you are betting $120, leaving yourself only $80 back. If you are gonna bet $120, you might as well jam the flop for slightly over pot. Don't think villain is folding anything that connects anyway, since your play could look like you only have the Ace of clubs or something. Alternatively you could go very small ($40 or something) and then jam turn. But you are pretty pot-stuck no matter what you do here, and should never even consider folding.

Overall just a cooler against a player you want in your game every single day. A7cc against someone who puts in 25% of their stack pre is simply terrible, and he is just praying to hit a miracle flop.

Obviously you're going to get stacked for 140BB deep in a 4bet pot, but question is whether you could have been more efficient

4bet size is quite large but nothing to speak of

There are very few situations you can't cbet in a 4bet pot. Here you have top set so difficult for CO to have top pair but he can have some top pair, lower sets, perhaps a hand like JcJx, any hand with Ac whether paired or unpaired.

You could just jam flop but better sizing is probably to bet 50 on the flop and jam any non-club turn (and you're obviously not folding to any raise)

Note that with Kc and Qc on the board CO should have very few flopped flushes

Checking is an option but there are gutshots to be concerned about as well. A small bet will get calls from almost anything except for something like AThh or 99 no club.

Either way it's hard to make a mess of top set in a 4bet pot

You kinda owned him this hand and yes you were destined to bust. I’d bet 60 flop and jam all non clubs easy game.

Your flop sizing should either have been smaller or bigger but overall yes, once he calls the 4bet with that garbage you are supposed to go broke. This is why you have a bankroll.

Everything was played perfectly - think how bad the villain played preflop calling your large 4b with A7. This guy is burning money preflop - once he stops running hot he's going to get killed

Raise bigger pre. 4b size is huge but you got him to call so hey. My smallest open is $10 unless im at a table of nits and opening wide.

Flop is bet $40 or check. I lean check almost always oop on monotone. Your huge 4b says kk or AA only for a lot of folks so your hand is really face up the way you played it.

If he calls you pre you are getting stack 100%.

4bet size is fine for this depth. Villain's call preflop is a massive spew.

Did you actually 4bet to 90? That may be a little large. But the pot size should be $163 if you 4bet to 80. And your stack should be $210 on flop, which is a good place to be in a 4bet pot. At that SPR, you can generally stack off with overpairs and you can get all the money in with a series of small bets. QQ and JJ have a hard time folding if they are overpairs themselves.

In theory on rhe flop you should bet small with most of your range. The flop is K high and that really favors you. In general a lot of spots in 4 bet pot are small bets like 25% pot. The clubs aren't as big a deal as they might seem. With Kc and Qc, you don't expect v to have many flushes here. No way of knowing he is as wide as he is. You are mainly against JJ which might have a club, QQ, AK, 3/4 of which doesn't have a club.

Small bet is best. It provides a good balance of hard to fold marginal hands now and on future steers, but does give some ammo for fold equity on later streets if you did have a bluff.

Hi, thank you very much for the response this was really helpful. I guess my one question would be just exactly why is a 1/4 bet with the majority of my range best on this flop? I understand it's an extremely wet board but my understanding from Grinders Manual was that you would typically want to bet bigger here? Also, wouldn't I have the range advantage even with the draws available?

I'm essentially just trying to understand the theory behind this. Your last comment makes sense in that we want to give marginal hands a tough decision and allows us to jam on brick turns but I'm just trying to understand a little more in depth.

Because you want to use a bet sizing that works for multiple hands in your range. Would you bet 66% here with JJ or A5ss? If you're betting 2/3 with KK here but small with hands that don’t smash flop, opponents can play perfectly and just fold when you bet big and jam when you bet small.

Solvers like a 1/4 sized range bet in 4bet pots, sometimes even smaller on some board textures like A high flops.

This situation is extremely rare to begin with but I suspect this is a spot where theory diverges from practice. In practice, I’d probably be jamming or checking this flop. My reasoning is that if my opponent is calling this 4bet with such a wide range that they have something marginal on this flop, they’re likely to make a calling mistake for stacks too. And a slight overbet now means any hand with a club has a tough decision, which compounds the mistake they made calling preflop.

I understand the theory behind the small bet, though. Our range has this board so crushed that we should expect any hand we really want action from to fold to a big bet. So we have to offer a really good price. Again, though, I think in practice this won’t be the case against many of the kinds of opponents who call 4bets wide enough for this to matter.

EDIT: Also I think in theory land we often assume we are up against opponents who raise these small bets with bluffs far more frequently than they really do.

You're going to get stacked in this specific hand yeah, but I think your flop sizing isn't great. I would mix between 30 and checking.

Blasting the flop here is just going to isolate yourself vs flushes and miss value against everything else. Also there's very few hands in your range that want to bet big here. You have probably exactly one combo of a flush.