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KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot

11-15-2018 , 07:23 PM
$1/$3
EP is a typically loose passive fishy player that limp calls a lot.
CO has just recently sat down, no reads appears competent.

EP limps, hero raises $15 in MP with K♠️J♠️. CO calls, EP calls.
Whilst not the greatest hand, a call here generally begins a cascade of calls and invariably going to a flop 7 ways or facing a massive squeeze. Raise was to isolate EP limp caller, whos range I am comfortably ahead of I feel.

$48 J♣️T♦️8♠️
Hero bets $30, CO Calls, EP folds
Ok flop and backdoor spades gives a bit more equity. Could we go more? Maybe $35-$40 might be a bit better.

$108 Q♣️
Hero checks, CO bets $55, hero calls
I really hate this card and check calling in hindsight. Should we be barrelling this turn? Can we just check fold? What is an appropriate check call range?
Feels like this is a better spot to bet/fold rather than check call but I’m not sure what worse hands call the turn bet...

$218 8♦️ hero checks CO bets 100, hero folds. Really can’t think of a hand we beat now.

Pretty sure I butchered this hand.
Comments welcome
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-15-2018 , 07:58 PM
On turn definitely check (because you can't get calls from worse and he's probably not folding better, since a lot of better hands have a draw eg KQ). After he bets, I think calling is probably the worst option as we're not drawing to the nuts, don't have odds for the draw, and will never show down this hand as a winner (either we're beaten or he'll bet the river and we can't call). Folding is fine, the other option is to checkraise. AK is in your range and probably not in his, and the reality is that he probably doesn't have a 9.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
and the reality is that he probably doesn't have a 9.
There are lots of 9x combos in his range. A9s/J9s/9Ts/98s/99. That's if he's a typical player. It could be wider.

Your flop sizing is fine. You could go a bit larger, but your hand isn't that good that you can go ape here and get called down by worse.

When you bet and get called by the CO on this flop, you should be checking a lot of turns. This is definitely one of them. I really don't see how he can ever have a bluff here, unless he's semi-bluffing with something like KTs.

His range is value heavy, he has position, we aren't getting a great price, and if we do hit we're never getting paid. Fold to the turn bet.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
There are lots of 9x combos in his range. A9s/J9s/9Ts/98s/99. That's if he's a typical player. It could be wider.
Right, but there's no particular reason why he should have one on this hand. There are a lot of non-9 combos in his hand as well and I expect him to bet a lot of them. I expect QT and QJ to take this line in the hands of most players, for example. Against an unknown I probably don't want to try to bluff out those hands but against some players I think we should consider it. Think about your ranges in this spot, because from your logic above it seems like you're probably checkraise bluffing never, check calling sets/maybe QJ only, and the rest of your checks are all folds. That seems awful passive in a spot where there's no positive indication the opponent has very much, and where the nuts is vastly more likely to be in our range than our opponent's.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 04:29 AM
I think we just have to x/f the turn. If you think you can get villain off 2 pair with a x/r then I guess thats fine but that seems ambitious in a 1/3 game.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Right, but there's no particular reason why he should have one on this hand. There are a lot of non-9 combos in his hand as well and I expect him to bet a lot of them. I expect QT and QJ to take this line in the hands of most players, for example. Against an unknown I probably don't want to try to bluff out those hands but against some players I think we should consider it. Think about your ranges in this spot, because from your logic above it seems like you're probably checkraise bluffing never, check calling sets/maybe QJ only, and the rest of your checks are all folds. That seems awful passive in a spot where there's no positive indication the opponent has very much, and where the nuts is vastly more likely to be in our range than our opponent's.
You're spewing all over the place bro. V can easily have a 9 here. Hell, V can easily have all the combos of AK here if he's like most passive 1-3 V's. Oh, and a passive 1/3 fish ain't folding his 2 pair + here once he's invested this much in the pot already. That's why he's a fish. He can't fold and you're playing right into his hands.

What are the effective stacks OP?
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 11:39 AM
I don't mind your line here at all, really tough to be ahead on the river; I think check folding the turn is just bad with your equity so i'd probly play the hand the same way tbh
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 12:32 PM
check fold turn, shouldn't even be a thread. You're paying half pot on 8 cards that might get you a chop or wont get you any extra money if villain doesn't have the chop.

2 of those cards complete a flush and may get you coolered and you may already be drawing dead against AK since many players just flat this hand in live low stakes.

Srs like the best case scenario is an ace, you lead he folds. Great you didn't get odds for it.


Very common spot

Very easy fold


In position I may call because it gives us a better chance of getting money on the river if we do actually hit and villain does actually have two pair. Or if i spike trips/two pair and villain checks to us we can be confident in our hand.


But oop this is an easy fold.

Last edited by StinkHolePatrol; 11-16-2018 at 12:38 PM.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 03:06 PM
i would check flop.

ap x/f lame spot
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120
I don't mind your line here at all, really tough to be ahead on the river; I think check folding the turn is just bad with your equity so i'd probly play the hand the same way tbh
x/f on the turn seemed weak to me at first, considering we flopped TPGK, but honestly what are we ahead of on the turn? And its not like we have implied odds when we hit our draw, there's a good chance we're calling to chop if we make our hand.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
You're spewing all over the place bro. V can easily have a 9 here. Hell, V can easily have all the combos of AK here if he's like most passive 1-3 V's. Oh, and a passive 1/3 fish ain't folding his 2 pair + here once he's invested this much in the pot already. That's why he's a fish. He can't fold and you're playing right into his hands.

What are the effective stacks OP?
Villain is not described as a passive fish, that's UTG. Villain is described as "seems competent".
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 05:46 PM
Definitely could use some stack sizes here. Might not even have enough to x/r.
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote
11-16-2018 , 07:11 PM
Villain had just sat down an orbit or so ago and was the effective stack, ~ 100bb.

Turn is pretty clear check fold on reflection.

I think this is a leak in my game. Flop top pair good kicker with some back door equity and basically getting ready to barrel most turn cards.. Then almost the nut low turn card comes and I hold onto the hand for a street too many
KJ♠️♠️ Crappy turn spot Quote

      
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