V (UTG, covers hero): Mostly loose passive, a few open-limps, many over-limps, but also raised several times preflop, nothing crazy, plays aggressively post-flop but folded on the river to a 1/4-pot bet with A8s on an A8Q8Q board, and the villain showed AQ for the better full house. Hero played with V before and assumed he was weak but decided to give him more respect this time after 2.5 hours of play.

Hero (BB, 325): If V is observing, hero has a super-nitty image. In 2.5 hours, hero has entered the pot just three times: once over-limping and folding; twice raising and both times taking down the pot without showing. After two hours being card-dead, hero took a break for a cannoli, hoping players forget any previous reads. Fifteen minutes after returning, he had this hand.

OTTH

V in UTG raises to 10, folds to hero in BB with KcQc. Hero raises to 30. V calls.

Flop (53 after rake): 9cJd5h

Hero bets 20. V calls.

Turn (93): Ts

Hero checks. V bets 50. Hero calls.

River (193): 7s

Hero?

Why check the turn if you are not going to check the river? If a guy 3b im playing against raised only twice in 2.5 hour and never 3bÂ….his bb 3b looks a lot like AA-QQ and AK at these stakes. That is the range im putting him on if weve never played before.

Now you are here, donking a jam seems weird with your image and might make the guy stop and think. It no longer looks like that range I would have put you on.

I can see a point for donking something small to make it seem like you dont like your hand too much like you are an OMC with QQ Maybe $40 or something.

But like a check more to keep in busted draws or random hands turned into bluffs perceiving the weakness on the turn and river as specifically AK your most logical hand.

I think I play every street differently tbh.

If a passive player opens UTG and it's folded round to the BB this feels like a perfect spot to just call. The range is likely to be strong in any event and you might well just be building a pot when dominated.

Flop can go either way but OOP in a spot where the flop hits the calling range harder than the 3bettor I'd be checking a lot. Betting isn't terrible with a gutshot and backdoor flush draw.

Turn and river do you think UTG has a lot of AA-QQ? I'm quite a simple soul but probably either just barrel turn or check-raise. I quite like a check-raise option.

Hero folding A8 on A8Q8Q to 1/4 pot sizing isn't great either...

I would just call pre.

Why did you check the turn? AP if you check turn you should check-raise after he bets. Check call is just bad, you aren’t building up the pot at all and you risk losing a bet. Why did you play turn that way?

AP lead river I think he’s going to check back nearly always.

Knowing you're going to be HU against an aggressive V OOP I like the FP raise .. you want to play a 'real' pot against this guy or get out. What was he showing down from any previous UTG opens?

I go larger on the Flop with this Board .. probably 35-40. Again, you want to play a pot that might bring stacks into play if you hit the nut out. Also, why would you want a Player to forget your image when that's exactly what you need here when you miss? Play this like AA-QQ and see if V becomes sticky with 1pr-gutter or similar.

I don't mind the check OTT since we are pretending to have KK/QQ here but I probably try to act a little uncomfortable .. check my cards .. and then put in a 'feeler' raise that's slightly over a min-raise. I would also consider shoving here if I've seen V call off in other spots. You have 'just' over pot behind the raise and are OOP so getting River value may be difficult if you flat Turn.

In these spots I will count out the call and then count down the rest of my chips. I want the V to know that it's just a pot sized raise and I'm in 'Oh, f-it' mode when I shove. If you've truly sat there for 2+ hours folding this guy knows it and if you can show a bit of frustration you might get more calls.

Either raise tactic is fine .. you min-raise since you don't think you'll get value OTR or you 'polarize' jam your supposed AA-KK (QQ is now OESD also) in a 'go-away' fashion and see how sticky he gets. Neither may work .. aggressive V like to have the lead and you're going to take it away from them here. But I IMO it's the best way to get any additional value that may be available.


Also, pretty sure it was V who folded A8 earlier .. but that is on River (no cards to come) and we don't know the action or bettor's image. I do play lots of PLO so folding an under-boat is like once an orbit for us! GL

Pre we probably just want to call. You can actually make a case for folding as we probably can't beat the rake here. On that note, when we 3! we want to take it down pre and not pay a rake so we should make it more like 40.

Don't mind the c-bet. We aren't thrilled with the flop. But we can push out some ace highs and if he does happen to have us crushed, we can buy a cheaper turn.

I'd probably just keep firing the turn. He could have 99, jj, tt, qq, jt. And I wouldn't expect KJ, QJ or AJ to fold much.

AP... river is weird. The thing is, V should have something. A V like described can totally check back a set here. I think you just have to bet big and try to make it look like a bluff. You could get called because it sort of looks like you're saying you have an 8, and you never should. Facing a big bet, I think V is confused, and ultimately lands on "IDK what you have but I have a set or 2p and I call."

fold pre

I'm not folding because of rake, I'm folding because the villain was described as a passive player who limps a lot, and now he raised from UTG. His range is too tight here, even if we flop a FD we're not getting good prices or can get him to lay down aces to a semi bluff this with a ~100 bb stack.

No offense but can you explain your actions in each street? Because none of your actions make any logical sense to me. In poker the idea is to bet with strong hands and check and fold with weak ones, its not that complicated.

You are 3betting oop vs a range that crushes yours pre

Then you hit a disguised action gin card on the turn that destroys him and you bet nothing. lol.
Unless this is a troll account

I like the 3bet for value against a loose player.

Flop bet is maybe a little small. You do have the overcard, backdoor, and gutter outs but you'd like a fold from him here.

Turn I probably would have bet. Since you checked turn I think I normally like shoving river since it's a bluffy/polarized line but given that you've been so card dead it might spook him. This is read-dependent on how you think V will act if you check. You said he's aggressive post-flop so x/r could be the move.

Call pre, though I don't think 3betting is a big mistake. As long as you don't fold tbh

Bigger on flop. Alt: c/r flop

$75 or $80 on turn to set up a comfy river shove. Go geometric.

As played c/r shove river.

Thank you, everyone, for your honest and extensive criticism.

Preflop: After the hand, I thought 3betting was the worst of the three options. A V who has open-limped and called limps now opens UTG 5x--that indicates a range stronger than KQs. After being card-dead for so long, I erred in my impatience (the cannoli obviously didn't satisfy my itch). I can maybe get behind defending the blind, but with the rake and 5x open, defending is probably a losing decision as well. If I get to heaven, where I get to play all my hands again as many times as I like, I’m folding.

Flop: If you 3be pre, V calls, and you flop some equity on a dry board (backdoor-flush draw and gutshot-straight draw), I believe you’re committed to a small c-bet. Giving up on the hand here just burns money (even if 3-betting preflop was an error). V’s call of a 3-bet preflop indicates strength, so you can’t profitably make a 2/3-pot bet. The hope is that V folds 1/3 of the time. I don't think V opens 5x UTG with AJo, and Hero blocks the KJs and QJs combos. On the other hand, hero blocks some AQ and AK combos that might fold to the c-bet. V has AJs in his range. I'll leave it to the pros to figure it out. Yes, 20 was more than 1/3 pot with the rake, but 15 was just too small, and I don’t burden dealers with small change.

Turn: When I looked at the V after the small c-bet, he wrinkled his nostrils, expressing: “he’s weak.” Yes, these intuitions are sometimes wrong, but not enough to ignore. I thought, if I check the turn, I continue with that impression of weakness. My straight is concealed. I can get two streets of value by inducing V to bet.

River: I’ll post results tomorrow.

Just read OP

I would bet flop thicker. Like full pot. This flop hits Vs range better than ours and I think leveraging our image could get folds from 66-88, TT, weak JX, T9s. And then I'm basically done if called and unimproved. Most runouts are blank blank right so I think take your stab now.

Hate checking the turn with the mortal nuts. People always default to slowplay and its just losing value imo. Bet or maybe x/r AP and go for thick value against all his 2p combos.

River is awkward now. Probably check hoping to x/r?

Just read the thread. Lol @ folding pre. We have KQs and a tight image and we're folding this pre? This can easily be some spaz open UTG. I've seen Vs show up with A7o in this spot, they're card dead too and get frustrated, see an Ace and lead. Imo 3-bet >>> Call ~ Fold. Once he calls the 3-bet and caps we're comfortable.

Flop: Your logic doesn't make sense, he should never have AQs AK here that didn't 4-bet pre. You're giving him a wayyyy tighter range than is reasonable. His flop range is elastic. He has hands like 77, A9s, JTs, QJ, all of which aren't liking a PSB continuation bet from a 2.5 hour perceived nit.

Turn: You think he's weak but if you feign weakness he'll bet? What? After the T hits there's so many 2-pair and pair+SD combos its unfathomable. Get your value!

My response is refer to bold, rest of the post I agree with as well. Pre I call; flop I likely check but I don't hate a cbet; turn I just barrel but x/r would be my second choice x/c seems really bad. River well I guess x/r now you're here. Would have been easier to to bet the turn yourself and jam river.

Calling down and leading big on river w nuts is a fish move. Its hard to answer OPs hand cause V is both loose passive but aggro post flop. Work better on your descriptions.

Just call pre, I would x/c flop. If I thought V was good I would lead turn big, if not prob lead turn half pot and med size value on river. Hes weighted to scared overpairs more than sets. The turn should be bad for V and good for our range unless he has exactly QQ.

One interesting thought: if we cbet flop which cards are we barrelling? A? K? Q?.. if any?

Actually ignore the end part of what I said above since I was thinking through the hand as if we just called pre. V is weighted to all the sets and potentially 2 pairs and QQ still. Im firing big the entire way. Our hand is disguised and a set should still raise us at some point.

Dude, based on your own description you got dealt around 90 hands, raised 2 and called one. So literally, after three hours of play, your VPIP/PFR is 3/2. That's ultra rock territory. It's hard to fathom you re so card dead you only get 3 playable hands. It's quite likely you need to expand your range.

Second, under no circumstances should you fold KQs in that spot, even if you think Villain's range is ultra strong. At the very least see a flop.

Third, once villain called your 3bet and didn't 4bet, your range is stronger than his range. Even once you take into account that it's a passive 1/2 game. You have all the AA and he's missing a lot of them. Fwiw, that board is probably a half pot 2/3s pot bet .

Fourth, it's true that on the turn the board favors his range somewhat because based on your image you don't have a KQ there; if you keep betting, it's going to look like overplayed AA. So if he has a strong hand or a draw, he will call you you down.

Fifth, forget whether villains look strong or weak or any of the live tells, just focus on your ranges and trying to balance your value with some appropriate bluffs (but only when you are HU).

Sixth, since this 1/2 and everyone's saying that the pool's leak is that they call too much, keep on piling your money when you hold the nuts!

Preflop should be pure call. Even a normal UTG range.....we don't 3bet KQs from BB. This guy's range is likely tighter. The advice above to fold pre is just horrible.

Your raise size is too small OOP.

Your flop bet is too small. We will be checking a lot OOP here. So 3/4 pot is better.

Turn check sometimes is fine *in theory*. However at LLSNL, I'd keep betting here. Especially since V likely has a stronger range than normal. If I check here, I'd probably c/r when they do bet.

Once you check/call the turn, kinda have to check river and hope he bets.

All of this logic is either wrong at worst, or leaving a lot of money on the table at best. Especially the flop paragraph.

The live tell part is huge LOL. Wrinkled his nostrils......

Results

Hero checks river. V bets 150. Hero pushes all in and shows. V showed KQo for a chop.

To the trolls in this thread who insult amateurs like me: you ruin the positive spirit on twoplustwo. This will be my last post for a while.

Peace.

This is small stakes poker. Some players will check back top set in this spot on the river because they don’t value bet thinly enough. Most players will snap check back overpairs. Checking turn and river is just lighting money on fire.

Adonson, my friendly advice is to remember K.I.S.S. Bet your strong hands and keep pots small with weak hands. Don’t count on your opponent to bet for you at low stakes. Do count on your opponent to call too wide at low stakes. Don’t base decisions on whether the guy wrinkles his nose, etc. You’re overcomplicating a simple game.

I think some of you guys overlook the impact of the rake at these stakes. This is going to be a 10% rake up to $7 or something. We do get the SB, though that will most likely go to the jackpot. But after that we are paying like a 20% tax on what we win most of the time. e.g. We call. Check/Check. We bet $10. Call. We bet $20, fold. Not counting the uncalled river bet, we put in $20 to win $17 or $16 if there's a jackpot. $15 if it's a $2 jackpot. Not really sure we can beat that vs UTG opens OOP.

In some places, they will take a drop of like $6-7 on the flop. I'm pretty sure you rarely want to pay single raised HU pots in such places, and I'm confident you very rarely want to play them OOP vs a snug UTG open.

Of course, we are in the BB so maybe it is a matter of losing less by calling than we do by folding. But, I think overall, single raised HU pots are just something we want to avoid except against people who are just spewing their brains out. I don't think it can be a big mistake to just raise really big with our premiums and a few bluffs.

With 66 or something, you at least have a chance to stack aces or kings. I think this hand's mostly going to be medium pots when you win, fully raked or almost.