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JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling?

10-06-2022 , 06:30 PM
Game is $2-$100 spread-limit, most you can raise is $100 over the previous bet.

Thursday afternoon. Hero is demolishing everyone and has rolled his $400 stack up to $1400. Very strong image, as I’ve been getting hit by the deck and having my hands hold up. I’m UTG.

Villain is UTG2. He’s an Action Gambler—really wild player who plays high-stakes blackjack and is always trying to open the game up. When I acquiesced to his request for a live straddle last orbit, he promptly put out a “dead ten “ raise. Obviously calls super wide, plays almost every hand, bluffs a ton. Great guy, absolute blast to have at the table. He has a stack of $300 to start this hand.

THE HAND:
Hero raises to $10 with JcJs UTG (8-handed). VillaiN calls, BB calls.

Flop: 5h5c2s (pot: $30)

BB checks. I check—partly for pot control, partly to let Villain bluff. Villain promptly bets $20. BB folds, I call (check-raising basically puts my hand face-up).

Turn: 5h5c2s 7h (pot: $70)

I check again. Villain now bets $55. I call.

River: 5h5c2s 7h 3d (pot: $180)

I check again. And now Villain down-bets to $45.

It’s such an odd line. Are we check-raising for value, or just calling?
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-06-2022 , 07:50 PM
Raise the turn. Raise the river
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-06-2022 , 08:12 PM
here again, the max $100 saves you from getting into too much trouble. I'm calling flop and turn and raising river. Because V is an ATC kinda guy, it's not unreasonable for him to show up with a 5. I can't bring myself to raise every street so I'm going to mix it up with a bit of pot control and then what I hope is a value bet.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-06-2022 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEKE01
here again, the max $100 saves you from getting into too much trouble. I'm calling flop and turn and raising river. Because V is an ATC kinda guy, it's not unreasonable for him to show up with a 5. I can't bring myself to raise every street so I'm going to mix it up with a bit of pot control and then what I hope is a value bet.
If you raise turn you wont get to raise river. But at every decision point there is a raise to be made
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 07:11 AM
The real question is why is this high stakes Action Gambler playing this lame ass spread limit game with his pocket change?

I also don't understand why you would wanna "pot control" here, especially against this guy. Pot control is basically a given in this lame ass spread limit game. It's impossible not to pot control.

As played I'd max raise the river. But in my opinion your goal should have been from the start of this hand to get him to hand over his 300 dollars to you, so I'm not a fan of the way you played this at all.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 08:11 AM
I don't think you get paid off with a raise on the river. The small bet is either a feeler or a suck bet. If it is a feeler bet, he folds to your raise. If it is a suck bet, you'll get re-raised. Call and let's see what he has.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 08:19 AM
The $100 bet limit is a state law; no-limit poker is not allowed in this state. Obviously, the $50-$100 Limit Hold’em game is higher-stakes—the pots are bigger—but GAMBLERS like this hate pure Limit games because “you can’t bluff anyone off their hands!”
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 08:55 AM
Obviously the math of spread limit is that FE goes down as the pot builds. This is why I prefer a turn raise here when the FD comes on board. Our JJ are vulnerable to overcard rivers too. What broadway cards do we want to see on river, other than the J?

For sure, V as described can get out of line. But V has something. Perhaps H takes a line that is too dismissive of the vulnerability of his JJ.

Raise turn.

AP: V makes value bet on the river after a somewhat polarized line - weird. H gets 5-1 to call, so we're calling. If we raise the 100, we offer V 3-1 to call us. Does this V fold or call his 7x at 3-1? If V would call, I guess we should raise.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 11:07 AM
Raise the turn -- get money in there while you can and while you are most likely ahead but can still get paid. Now call the river because he's probably not calling a raise w/ worse than JJ.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 12:56 PM
I like the way you played it thru the river check and would have expected villain to bet max on river, which I'd follow the plan and call.

When he doesn't bet max I get a little suspicious that now he wants a call instead of a fold.
To java's point, he prob doesn't pay off a c/r with like 43 or A3. So on balance I agree call
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-07-2022 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
River: 5h5c2s 7h 3d (pot: $180)

I check again. And now Villain down-bets to $45.
RESULT:

Okay, so here’s what happened: In my mind I was absolutely expecting him to bet $100 on some stupid bluff and I’m gonna snap-call it like Phil Hellmuth. So the second I saw him reach for chips I’m just licking my lips knowing I’m about to be $100 richer. I just had one thought in my head “SNAP CALL!”

If I had taken even 2 seconds to think about it I 100% would have raised. He’s never betting that small with a hand that beats JJ, never! And I don’t think it’s a bluff very often (a bluff would be for $100), I think it’s just a weak value hand trying to get me to make a crying call with ace-high.

So I stupidly JUST called it. Villain flips over 99, My Hand Is Good, but I once again leave $100 on the table.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote
10-09-2022 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davomalvolio
RESULT:

Okay, so here’s what happened: In my mind I was absolutely expecting him to bet $100 on some stupid bluff and I’m gonna snap-call it like Phil Hellmuth. So the second I saw him reach for chips I’m just licking my lips knowing I’m about to be $100 richer. I just had one thought in my head “SNAP CALL!”

If I had taken even 2 seconds to think about it I 100% would have raised. He’s never betting that small with a hand that beats JJ, never! And I don’t think it’s a bluff very often (a bluff would be for $100), I think it’s just a weak value hand trying to get me to make a crying call with ace-high.

So I stupidly JUST called it. Villain flips over 99, My Hand Is Good, but I once again leave $100 on the table.
I definitely donÂ’t think you can assume he never bets this size with something worse than a jack.
JJ OOP; are we check-raising this River, or check-calling? Quote

      
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