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JJ OOP in multi-way pot JJ OOP in multi-way pot

08-25-2021 , 11:14 PM
I just moved to this table after the previous one broke. I have about $800 or $900 and most cover me. I walked by earlier and it seemed to be a very active table but I think most of the action has dried up. It seems pretty loose-passive except for a couple action players.

There are a lot of v's in this pot but main villain is an older Asian man with about the same size stack. He seems like a pretty straightforward player from what little I've seen.

My image is pretty good. I've been here an orbit or two, and maybe played one hand where I folded on the flop.

OTTH:

A few limps to me in the SB with JJ. I make it $40 and FIVE people call. I thought I could narrow it down to one or maybe two with a good sized raise and my image but instead I'm first to act with JJ in a $240 pot before the flop even comes out. I plan on checking every flop.

Flop: $240. K-7-4hdd checks around.

Turn. $240. K-7-4-7c. Checks to V who bets $170. Two players fold, I tank for a bit. Neither of the other two players seem interested at all. One has all but folded. Given the way the hand has been played, I don't think V has to have all that much to take a stab here. I called, everyone else folded.

I kind of hate every decision here TBH. I don't really like calling, I feel like my hand is way under-repped. Does anyone like jamming as a bluff?

River: $580. K-7-4-7-Js. Hero checks, hoping V will fire again.

Interested in opinions about the river check too. It seems like it's so rare for villains to fall into the trap here but it just seems like a great spot to let him hang himself.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 12:50 AM
5 calls on $40? Unless average stacks are $2000+ that is silly bad. Assuming this is 2/5 $40 is fine, I might go $50 at a table of unknowns.

Flop check is obvious. You got a bad flop for your hand because with that many people in it's very likely somebody has a king. Not that there are many good flops that don't have a jack with that many opponents.

Turn is a tough call for that sizing. This feels like KX or 7X going for value but it could be a middle pair. With some read on villain this could be an easy fold or easy call. Against an unknown I favor a fold. A bluff is very risky, you don't know if villain can fold a KX yet or how much to weight his range towards 7X. You don't have a good read on the villains behind you yet, you don't know if one of them could be getting tricky with 7X yet.

River is a toss up. Without any read on how light he bets turn and how often he continues there is no way to know. My inclination is check. There are a good number of hands he checks behind (middle pairs and weak KX) but those hands are not likely to call if you bet. Checking gives you a chance of stacking his 7X and AK with a check/raise.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 01:04 AM
Your conceptualization of his turn bet leaves you with nothing to think about otr - check always.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 06:25 AM
The on the turn is the real mistake. A straightforward player is going to check behind hoping to get to showdown, not fire a 2/3 PSB with 99. Fold with no other information. On the river, you hit your 2 outer. Sure if he has 99, he's folding to a bet. I just don't think that's much of his range and I don't see trips or even TP folding for $175 as played. If he has Kings full of 7s or quads, nice hand sir.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 07:51 AM
yah I think it's very optimistic to think that villain is bluffing the turn in a 6 way pot. fold turn.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 08:20 AM
It's important to know what position the V is in. If he is closing, or near to, action pre, his range is wider and could include hands like 87s/76s/KJ/KT.

As others have said, I'd let it go on the turn. Never jamming to this sizing from an ABC opponent, multi-way.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
08-26-2021 , 10:36 AM
Defining "a few limps" is important. If it's 3 limps I raise from SB to $50. If it's 5 limps I go $60. I wouldn't go $40 unless it's just one limp... It's very important to iso huge, especially when OOP.

Flop looks good.

I would just fold turn Multiway. This doesn't seem like a profitable spot at all.

Probably just go for crai otr...A 7 is almost never checking back, if he was stabbing light with an 88-TT hand I don't expect it to ever call a river lead, if he somehow has air that's never calling a lead... The only thing that sucks is if he checks back a K, which wouldn't shock me given how MUBS LLSNL players are, but I feel like it's more likely than not he'll bet a K with the given line and being HU otr.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-03-2021 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
I just moved to this table after the previous one broke. I have about $800 or $900 and most cover me. I walked by earlier and it seemed to be a very active table but I think most of the action has dried up. It seems pretty loose-passive except for a couple action players.

There are a lot of v's in this pot but main villain is an older Asian man with about the same size stack. He seems like a pretty straightforward player from what little I've seen.

My image is pretty good. I've been here an orbit or two, and maybe played one hand where I folded on the flop.

OTTH:

A few limps to me in the SB with JJ. I make it $40 and FIVE people call. I thought I could narrow it down to one or maybe two with a good sized raise and my image but instead I'm first to act with JJ in a $240 pot before the flop even comes out. I plan on checking every flop.

Flop: $240. K-7-4hdd checks around.

Turn. $240. K-7-4-7c. Checks to V who bets $170. Two players fold, I tank for a bit. Neither of the other two players seem interested at all. One has all but folded. Given the way the hand has been played, I don't think V has to have all that much to take a stab here. I called, everyone else folded.

I kind of hate every decision here TBH. I don't really like calling, I feel like my hand is way under-repped. Does anyone like jamming as a bluff?

River: $580. K-7-4-7-Js. Hero checks, hoping V will fire again.

Interested in opinions about the river check too. It seems like it's so rare for villains to fall into the trap here but it just seems like a great spot to let him hang himself.
A couple thoughts:

1. I wouldn’t auto-check every flop. On good flops for our hand we don’t wanna give a free card to 4 players.
2. I think you can make an exploitative fold OTT given the bet size and how many people he’s betting into. Without reads I think it’s fine to just fold and make a mental note of it.
3. Live players are showdown monkeys and I don’t expect him to have many pure bluffs, so I would bet the River. I expect him to check back a ton of his Kx. I would put out a block bet sizing that you would expect to get called by Kx and you’ll prob get raised by 7x.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-03-2021 , 11:11 AM
I agree with a most of other posters, but basically what water69 wrote is what I would write.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-05-2021 , 06:45 AM
Blocking bet. Check back is bad.

$120.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-09-2021 , 09:40 PM
A leak of mine is that I have a tendency to hang on to hands that I know I should be folding. I just get so curious to find out how I got beat. I still do well at 2/5, but I could do better if I could plug this leak.

Thanks for the feedback.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-10-2021 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
I just moved to this table after the previous one broke. I have about $800 or $900 and most cover me. I walked by earlier and it seemed to be a very active table but I think most of the action has dried up. It seems pretty loose-passive except for a couple action players.

There are a lot of v's in this pot but main villain is an older Asian man with about the same size stack. He seems like a pretty straightforward player from what little I've seen.

My image is pretty good. I've been here an orbit or two, and maybe played one hand where I folded on the flop.

OTTH:

A few limps to me in the SB with JJ. I make it $40 and FIVE people call. I thought I could narrow it down to one or maybe two with a good sized raise and my image but instead I'm first to act with JJ in a $240 pot before the flop even comes out. I plan on checking every flop.

Flop: $240. K-7-4hdd checks around.

Turn. $240. K-7-4-7c. Checks to V who bets $170. Two players fold, I tank for a bit. Neither of the other two players seem interested at all. One has all but folded. Given the way the hand has been played, I don't think V has to have all that much to take a stab here. I called, everyone else folded.

I kind of hate every decision here TBH. I don't really like calling, I feel like my hand is way under-repped. Does anyone like jamming as a bluff?

River: $580. K-7-4-7-Js. Hero checks, hoping V will fire again.

Interested in opinions about the river check too. It seems like it's so rare for villains to fall into the trap here but it just seems like a great spot to let him hang himself.
Your thought process is all over the place, you need to think more logically and less emotionally

Preflop: Sizing seems small if this is 2/5

"I plan on checking every flop" - Why is this part of your plan, you have a preflop range advantage and you should continue aggressing on some boards even with such a big field because their ranges are wide, at 3 SPR you can stack off on boards like 932

Flop: Check good, cant get called by much worse, don't need much protection, don't need to bet much multi-way

Turn: You don't give V's position but given action, it seems very hard for the bettor to have a bluff (few flush draws that still have equity but not much, plus V has to bluff into 5 calling stations so unlikely he bluffs) and seems likely to have hands like KQ or 7x. You are definitely smart to get reads from players behind you but given action you are so far behind V's value range I would fold. Your logic then kind of dissolves since your JJ isn't underrepped, if anything it is properly repped 5-way. Jamming makes no sense since you will play 0 value hands this way so it is going to be unbalanced weighted towards bluffs, and you have 2 outs vs. hands that will snap call you. Not even sure what youre trying to get to fold if you jam, like KTs maybe.

River: Being that on turn he is probably betting KTs+ for value + bluffs, and being that on river outside KT exactly all other value hands (KJ/KQ/trips+) will continue betting plus if he has a bluff he might fire again (since you think he might be taking a stab), think this is a very clear check. If he made a dumb bet with 99 on the turn he won't call your lead anyway.

Don't think they pick it up at these stakes but leading a card that makes 0 sense to lead on normally means you smashed the card, and it makes 0 sense to lead here

Hope that helps
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote
09-11-2021 , 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertUCooper
Your thought process is all over the place, you need to think more logically and less emotionally
That's the story of my life. Appreciate the feedback.
JJ OOP in multi-way pot Quote

      
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