Villan MP2 (2000+)
Hero HighJack(1100)
Button(~3000)


This hand was in a local 2-5NL game playing 10 handed, my image is TAG, Villain is new to me and has been playing very loose but has given my bets/raises alot of respect.

Action:

2 limps, Villan also limps, Hero raises to 35$ with JdJs , Button calls 35$, folds back to Villan who calls 35$.

Flop: Qc6h3d

Checks around

Turn:7h

Villan bets 55$, Hero calls, Button folds

River:9c

Villain checks, Hero Checks

Villan showsdown AQo and scoops the pot, is this standard call? I almost wanted to bet the river for some thin value??

Considering the rainbow nature of the board and the fact that villain has been giving a lot of respect to your bets/raises, it seems a c-bet is in order here. His only draw would be 45 and if you're correct in your assessment, he likely would've thrown that away preflop. So you can bet with confidence that if you're called you're likely beat. This would be essentially the same as calling the $55 turn bet, but with the added benefit of protecting yourself from being outdrawn.

As it stands, again, assuming villain has been giving a lot of respect to your bets/raises I'm hard pressed to find a hand he turn bets without a Q. Maybe TT/99? Maybe AhXh ? Either way, I like the turn call a little less. AQ check on the river is a solid play - if he bets you probably fold, so his check is bluff/thin-value inducing.

Overall I'd say both played pretty solid, only change I might make is to flop bet instead of turn bet since the board is relatively dry and your opponents range is narrowed. Unless you had concerns about button, but if so you should've mentioned them instead of ignoring the fact that he's in the hand.

Really Appreciate the response, I also forgot to mention that Villain had been playing very wild/gamblish and somewhat aggressive but seemed to get in line when in a hand with me. I think his limp calling range here was about 22+,AJs+. After I thought about the hand I honestly think he was going to check/raise his TPTK. I also thought he was capable of semi-bluffing the turn with AhXh. Also button was of no real worry in this hand, just happened to tag along for the flop.

Calling turn seems fine, flop isn't a bad spot to C-bet though.

I don't agree with this. if villains give hero's bets respect, why bet flop? he's turning his hand into a bluff because I can't imagine worse will call. i say let villain chance to bluff worse hands on turn and river. i think giving free card is ok here. only worry about A and maybe K. hero is in position and can play pot control and catch bluff.
i think this hand was nicely played.

i could be wrong though and i'm happy to hear counter argument

I think this hand is the counter-argument. You're not betting on the flop to make better hands fold or to exact value from hands you're ahead of (though you might with TT or 99), you're betting to make hands which are behind pay to catch up.

If you don't c-bet the flop you should definitely be calling a turn bet. So what's the difference? Do we really think he's bluffing here on the turn a decent amount? If the turn comes Ax and he bets don't we have to lay it down now? And wouldn't the villain lay down something like AJ, AK to a c-bet on the flop.

In short, not c-betting might get some extra value out of TT or 99, but in general if you're getting that value out of a non-c-bet you also have a decent chance of getting it out with a c-bet. And there are a few cards you might not like to see on the turn that would be gotten rid of with a flop bet, whereas there are comparitively few turn cards that, due to the non-c-bet, hero will get extra value out of.

I'm not sure I understand your argument here.
You were behind on this flop. This is exactly why you shouldn't be the flop. you would get called only by better. if you're betting to fold TPTK, then 1) you're betting as a bluff and 2) i don't think he's folding.

if villain is behind on the flop, there are very few turn cards that will improve his hand. i don't think you need to protect here. also, if villain is a loose, then there' s a higher chance that he will make a bet on the turn.

Ok, so let's say you don't bet the flop. You are calling a turn bet then? Regardless of what falls?

yes, An Ace is probably the worst card to fall on the turn but I'm calling any turn. the pot is only $100 and you're deep so you're not at a committment point here. probably fold to another bet on the river and give it to him if he has the moxy to 2barrel bluff

firstly, live table you arent getting them all to fold after 3 limpers if you raise only 7x. Either make it bigger or just limp along.. with these many players live JJ probably makes more $$$ over time if you play it like 77 rather than AK.

on the 3way Qxx ragged flop one checks to you it's an auto cbet, dont even contemplate checking or be results-oriented. The fact those guys flatcalled your raise pf means they are very unlikely to have an overpair, so 2 players with unpaired cards or possibly more likely smaller pp's just have a very small chance of hitting this dry flop.

lastly, consider the consequences of NOT CBETTING. you make your play extremely transparent and villains will begin to run over you knowing that you are scared to fire if your pfr gets called and flop isnt totally safe for you.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I have to agree with this post here but my question is after I c-bet the flop Villian wouldve obviously called and now I have to probably check behind turn and maybe fold river to bet, kinda seems like I would be wasting money this way??

balance your range. check back the flop with AQ and sets

Ok, so you're calling any turn bet. Now answer this: what are you ahead of that is betting a turn but not calling a c-bet on the flop? Do you think villain will bluff an A-high or K-high here? If so, I'm confused and respectfully disagree.

If villain fires the turn, he's most likely got a Q, or a mid pair between 6 and Q or maybe something like 67 (though I'd put that on the low end). All of these are likely calling your flop bet anyway, so why allow a few hands to get there by not c-betting the flop? TT will still be there, on the flop and the turn.

The difference between c-betting the flop and not c-betting the turn is the allowance of a free card to hands that might catch up to you. I see no hands that would fold to a flop bet but fire a turn bet while behind. You have a risk-free move here.

You seem to advocate the standard method of raise with a mid-high pair, and if any overcard hits act scared but still call down with it. I hate this way of playing and think it is a pretty bad leak. You are playing your hand faceup and basically daring any thinking villain to double-barrel you (and folding to his/her dare). Not only that, your strategy essentially consists of acting exactly as you feel - the desire to get to showdown cheaply with a mediocre hand. Anytime you are playing face up is an advantage to your opponent and a detriment to yourself.

My strategy for this hand would be to bet the flop. If I'm called, I'm checking behind almost all turns (only ones I might bet on would be A/K, and of course a J). If villain leads into me on a blank turn, I'm probably folding but I'd be super confused. If villain check-raised me I'd say "nice hand" and muck unless I really smelled something fishy. If I got a check-behind on the turn I might call a river bet depending on how I felt about the opponent at the time and how big the bet was, but mostly I'm folding.

I hate not c-betting this flop. Hate it. And I think you should too.

So you're saving your strategy by claiming that it helps by allowing you to not put money into the pot while you are ahead by a wide margin? Huh?

Why don't we balance our range of betting AQ and sets when checked to with betting JJ? That seems like a better strategy to getting more money in the pot while ahead.

^^^ yes I agree, we shouldnt balance by checking back, but balance by cbetting air as well as made big hands because our goal is to be paid off by opponent's entire stack and its much easier to achieve that by betting air as well as monsters than checking back air as well as monsters and relying on villain to suddenly get aggro and invest his whole stack in a checked back flop when he has the worse hand.

as to the OP, on a very dry flop especially OOP if we cbet with air and get called, unless villain is a calling station we should shut it down a large % of the time. if we're in position it's a lot easier to fire a second barrel but still should consider the fact that if villain's decent, he's most likely not calling on a dry flop OOP without a made hand.

^^^ 2nd this. I play a lot live and find this strategy to be most profitable. I look at getting caught bluffing or having to fold after a cbet as an investment that pays off in the long run with the action it generates. If I can win a little or even just break even on my bluffs, I'm happy. Probably not much different than online, but since there are more fish live, they are easier to manipulate this way, ime.