Table: 1/2, Sunday Morning 11am.

We are play 8 handed at the moment. I just sat down last hand, so no dynamic extablished today, but I have history with many villains.

V1: Generally fairly tight, but raises seldom when OOP to me. Will limp/call the majority of his range (normally raises KK/AA regardless) when I'm in LP as he expects me to raise fairly often. Views me as very laggy. Covers.

V2: Soft spot at the table an in general. Loves to play atpc (any two pretty cards) for most prices. Generally doesn't fold for less than $15 and will peel with 40% of hands is there are more than 2 people who call in front of him. 3bets KK/AA but likely flats the entire rest of his range ho my opens. Views me as laggy, but very competent. Enjoys playing pots with me. $200.

V3: Tight younger kid who plays tournaments and cash. Generally plays smaller pots pre flop, but has been turning up the agression against me pre flop as he knows that I can open wide. Has been seen 3betting me with AJs+, AQo+, 77+ IP and OOP, but not all the time. In an earlier sessions he opened AJs from UTG for 3x, 1 caller I squeezed on the button with AKs to 11x, he min 4bet to 19bb and I flatted. We checked it down on a QQTT4 board. (I likely played the hand bad.) Post flop he only bets close the nuts. $200

V4: Random, never seen him before, looks like a standard 50 y/o rec fish. $150.

Hero: I just sat down, bought in for $300, barely in my seat yet. $300

Pre:
Random limps
V1 limps
1 fold
Hero raises to $15 with JJ while still not in his seat yet.
V1 says something to the effect of "Wasting no time I see?"
V4 flats on the button
V2 flats from the SB
V3 min 3bets to $30 from the BB
Limper folds
V1 cold calls

Hero?

Weird spot. Stack sizes are awkward. I want to shove, but nothing you beat ever calls you though.

If H just calls, I think everyone will come along and we are basically set mining or praying for uncoordinated little cards or coordinated cards that hit a J. I think I like a raise, but you must be committed. Seems like the right spot for it from description of V3.

No one should ever have you beat here. Min 3betting with this many people in the hand with QQ+ is terrible. He knows the pot is going 4-5 ways to the flop so I can't imagine 3better has you beat. If V1 had limped with a monster he would 4bet here.

I feel like you just about always have the best hand here and I don't think calling is an option. Don't want to see a flop 5 ways with JJ and an spr of 2. Especially when not the pfr. Calling is really bad.

Use your laggy image here. Some people do crazy things on the first hand at a table. Jamming may look bluffy. I could see someone leveling themself into calling your jam with worse. Get it in. Even if you get folds, there's already over $100 in the pot. Look at the ranges you assigned to V1 and V3. Decision should be easy.

I would just call. He is not trying to chase you out of the pot. Actually he's almost begging you to stay in. I would call and play poker post flop. We're not always set mining, we can also play it for it's value. If we 4bet we would hate to throw it away to a jam.

Regardless of what I do here, there is never a throw it away option if we 4bet unless we 4bet to $100 or so, everyone folds, V1 shoves, picks up his cards, turns them face up and shows me QQ/KK/AA.

We are pretty well comitted against anyone else on the table with any reasonsable sized 4bet.

that is the point there is no 4bet/fold option its always 4bet/gii the question is do we wana gii against a tight kid

Look at the range he assigned the tight kids 3bet.

Opponent sizing seems terrible for QQ+ and based on previous HH (min-4bet), I’d say we are ahead of most of his range.

That said, I think 4-betting likely folds worse hands, and commits us for 100 bbs since there is already 50+ bbs in the pot. Also need to consider if we run into the top of his range (QQ+), how this may impact our play the rest of the session.

I’d call with good equity besides set-mining odds.

k

did he min-3bet these hands? How much did he make it when he 3bet light?

80% of the time his 3bets are min 3bets. He 2.5x with QQ one time, but he min 3bet with AA and AJs. I haven't seen a correlation yet between hand strength and raise size.

You think we are ahead of most of his range yet we should just call? We will be in a bloated pot (who's folding?) five ways with JJ. How do we play poker if a Q, K, or A hits the flop? I don't like it at all. If I'm likely ahead of someone's range and there is $100 in the pot with $200 behind, I'm going for it.

Definitely terrible... but so was min 4-betting OOP with AJs. Ruling out terrible seems like a mistake.

Shoving over a 3-bet into 4 players (all of whom have have put at least $15 in already) also looks pretty damn strong. I don't think you're inducing many bad hero calls, especially with the comment V1 just made.

Pretty sure I'm talking myself into just calling. Keeping V2 involved is an added bonus. He gives a decent bump to implied odds the times we flop sets.

The fact that both V3 and V1 play pretty tight/abc postflop helps us the times we don't flop sets. If either one of them bets flop, were basically always beat (regardless of flop texture) and if they both check to us, were pretty likely to be ahead (this is more flop exture-dependent though.)

Don’t think shoving is incorrect by any means.

If an over card flops we are clearly behind multi-way so it is an easy fold. That’s the way it rolls sometimes. Shoving clearly makes a post flop decision easy – there is no decision. The OP has post flop skills, an advantage over this field.

Calling allows us to play ip vs. the PFR and laggy EP player. There is also a good chance outs (over cards) are being shared multi-way. 4-bet may also fold AQ/TT.

I think I jam. Pot is already 1/2 of effective stack. Winning the pot now is not a bad thing. You also may get called by 99-TT/AK/AQ. I think we have the best hand almost always, but I don't want to see the flop 4 ways. Any raise commits us, and I think raising to $100 or $120 actually looks stronger than a shove.

If we're sure were going with this hand(as i would be given the action), I would click it back to about 75 this way, the rest of them fold and allows V3 to either fold or shove with a worse hand thinking that there is still FE. I think the worst option is to call, why would you want to go 5 ways with JJ? I dont think any flop missing a J will make me comfortable. If we lose then we lose. If V3 did that with QQ+ then its terrible but so be it.

How often do you post/raise?
How often have you seen V3 min 3! In a multiway pot OOP?
If im V3 I would think this would be a pretty good spot to induce a 4! from such a laggy hero. I mean his 3! just looks so weak He can also easily get his stack in on the flop if everyone just calls with a relatively small SPR.
I imagine his squeezes would be bigger here because lets be honest no villan is folding here to a min raise and hes probably just going to call in a multiway pot with most of his described range....how does he view you?

I re raise to $100. Isolate him and honestly I don't want a call, but if so I'm commited

Those of you who advocate calling, what if the flop comes low cards and V3 pushes? Are we folding?

I call and proceed very cautiously post-flop. I'm like 90% just set mining and rarely on certain boards with certain action might continue putting money in, like if the board is favorable and V3 checks. If I just call, flop comes low and he bombs I just fold feeling pretty confident he's not bombing worse multiway.

Yes, and pretty comfortably at that. Reread his description in the OP.

I'm surprised how many people are 4-betting $75-$100. Shoving and calling were the only two options I really considered.

THE question is how do you interpret his min raise. Does he minraise everything? Unknown players like that. If so then you can just call. If he normally raises his monsters more then you should be 4 betting. If you can't 4 bet, then it's a pretty juicy set mine spot.

What happens when all low cards come up and either of the other Vs push. What are you going to do? Obviously fold. JJ is too strong to fold and too weak to play multiway. If you shove, V3 is not calling with a worse hand. And I dont like raising to $100 as V3 may think that he doesnt have any FE. We're going with this even if he has a better hand but we want him to go with it with the worse hand and the only way to do that is to get him to shove himself.

Calling and seeing a flop with JJ 5 ways not as the pfr with an spr of 2 is terribad.