1/3 game, $200 cap, Saturday afternoon.

Hero: Young Asian, playing very tight today, has shown down only big hands, hasn't been caught bluffing. (~800ish) - Cut off

Villain: Mid 20s guy, seems to be a reg because he knows quite a few people around the room, on his 3rd buy in. He plays a very aggressive style, I let him represent a straight on a 4 card straight board and called down with KK and won a big pot. ($500) - Would say loose aggressive, plays a lot of hands, I'd say 33%+ VPIP, but not sure if a good LAG, but is definitely one of the better players at the table.... Table is super soft tho. He is in the MP.

All other villains aren't too important here.

two limpers to V, he raises to 12 (he hasn't change his preflop raise sizing all game) but looks very happy with his hand (more than usually), one call, I call in the cut off with JJ (I would 3bet here generally but just didn't feel that he would fold and more often than not overs would flop and I would prob have to c/f to aggression), BB calls and the two limpers call.

6 to the flop ($73 - $66 after rake)
Flop: 9 10 3

BB checks, utg bets $15, utg+2 folds, V raises to $55, X folds, Hero?

So, I know that UTGs bet looks like a blocker bet to set his own price for some sort of draw and I am sure V knows this, so he prob can raise with AT or any over pair, even bigger draws such as two heart overs...
But I think AT is the bottom of his value range with this hand, we were 6 ways and I am unsure what the BB and UTG will do (sets etc etc).

I elect to fold.

Would you guys fold in this spot or peel to see a turn or even throw out a raise?

You will have the best hand an annoying percent of the time, but not often enough for calling to be worth it. You only have $12 invested, get out cheap. Villain is the sort who is going to bet most turns and the hand is going to get too expensive for your cards.

Your hand is under represented but is by no means a strong hand. Even if villain has two over cards and is just cutting off UTG's draws he will beat you a good chunk of the time. If villain is raising with a draw himself, there are a lot of potentially bad turn cards and your not going to have any idea where you are in the hand.

Flatting with jacks can be the best option but when you do your turning your hand into a set mining operation. You have to be willing to fold much of the time if you miss and there is too much flop action, you will have the best hand sometimes but your flying blind. Calling will often get you into a lot of trouble.

What was your plan on this hand? You call PF just to fold to a pot sized bet on the flop when it comes all undercards?

Villain's range is still wide, and includes any two overcards, 88, FD, etc.

"lets not squeeze pre cause im not feeling it".. goodluck being successful using only intuition in 2015.

If you dont 3bet pre you dont have enough info and its now a guessing game.

Because he is an agroo opponent you are not going to invest 55$ but more as he will continue betting.
As played i would fold also on the flop.

As it said before you only invested 12$ in this hand.

Flatting pre fine. Definitely folding flop as played. If you're behind you're basically drawing dead and its gonna cost a lot to find out. If he has A10 then oh well.

Do you have the Jh in your hand?

3bet pre. We don't want him to fold, we want him to call with a wide range so we can play HU in position. Considering your previous hand he is probably not getting out of line on scary boards anyway.

As played, i'm folding since we don't have much invested, this flop hits an myriad of hands, there are 2 people behind us, and even the bottom of his range probably has ~25% equity.

+1

I'm definitely 3-betting this PF vs. the described V. If he's opening a wide range, you should be exploiting him by widening both your value and bluff 3-bet ranges. JJ definitely falls into the former category, plus you don't want to flat here and have the hand go multiway.

As played, I think your range for his flop raise is pretty accurate (made hands AT+ and some big draws), so folding is fine in this spot.

3bet preflop to 50. As played ship flop, there's no reason for him to think you have a big pair especially if he's aware of his image. This guy sounds like an ATM for you. Given that he's down 2 buy-ins, I fully expect him to be gambling it up with the bottom end of his range on this flop, and his sizing is crying that he wants a fold.

Regarding "looking happy": he's probably compensating for his real feelings about his hand, much like he compensates for his poor holdings with bluffing. I think you catch him with a ton of draws in this spot.

I 3 bet pre all day.

You're probably a nit. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm happy 3betting or flatting pre as long as we take an appropriate line postflop. Folding vs this flop action is fine after flatting pre.

The reason I'm happy flatting is the V is so aggressive It gives us good implied odds for set mining or even calling down with an overpair in the right circumstances - these aren't the right circumstances.

I'm more in favour of 3betting pre though. When I'm playing LAG nothing is more annoying than an IP opponent 3betting a wide range (value and bluffs as noted above). It cuts down the LAG's room for manoeuvre and forces him to either stop opening so big and frequently or get owned OOP postflop in low SPR pots vs a strong but ill defined range (if you through in some bluffs with SC/AXs). I really think this is the best way to crush LAGs and since you can only do it effectively IP you should do so every opportunity you get.

Obviously rather than folding or flatting vs your 3bet he could maintain a wide opening range and start a 4betting war with you. That is rare at live low stakes in my experience (though not online). If it does go that way you just have to identify whether he is following through vs 5bets or folding all the time or if he has a well balanced defence strategy worked out.

If he 4bets and calls a lot of allin 5bets then your 5bet range needs to be value heavy and you just have to nut up and put it in vs his 4bets as wide as your read dictates. If he folds to a lot of 5bets then bluff with blockers and v5bet the nuts. Then, when IP, flat a range that's ahead of his 4bet range intending to ship almost all flops or call him down at least. You could flat AA IP vs a 4bet occasionally, particularly if you are confident his aggression will gii postflop anyway.

I think we have two choices preflop. If we just flat, we know we're going to a zillion way multiway pot; we're *almost* setmining, although we will have position on the world and can sometimes take down a decent pot postflop on good boards / little action. I don't mind this option. However, with him opening a lot and already at least another bet worth of dead money in the pot, I don't mind a 3bet, but the sizing might get tricky. If we size to about $75 we can stack off with an overpair pretty comfortably postflop (although we won't always flop an overpair, and thus be in a tricky spot a lot). If we size it smaller (to like $45 which will probably get us HU with Villain), this will create a low SPR pot where he can make us play for stacks (and yet we're giving him good odds to stack us). And there's also the problem if he reraises, where we'll probably have to fold a potential monster making hand. I'm probably too passive in spots like this, especially against an aggro raiser, but I'm fairly cool with the passive route we took. The more dead money there is in the pot, the more I would lean towards a 3bet.

If we're taking the passive route to create a very multiway pot, then we have to be much more willing to fold postflop to flop action. The EP donk is obviously lol small, but it is still a donk into the world; and even though raiser is action player, he's still raising with a lot of the world left to act / react. A lot of draws are doing decent against us, and even a J on the turn completes some draws. I'm fine with the fold.

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Agree with the majority that we should be 3b this V pre and the reasoning for no 3b is bad.

Post I am more than likely peeling one in game, but am leaning towards a fold. We should really be considering the UTG range here... and its going to be very difficult to win/ have the best hand going 3way to a turn. Plus you have a "read" V likes his hand....

Thank for the responses guys.
The villain showed 9Tcc and I immediately regretted not 3betting preflop, but he said its one of his favourite hands and would've called a 3bet... So glad I didn't.
I just am not comfortable stacking off with JJ in a 3bet pot even if there are no overcards on the board.

Good fold and you're a nit.

3-bet pre

Against someone who will call 3bets pre, OOP with SC and has "favourite hands" you are going to make a killing 3betting big and maintaining the pressure postflop.

Yes you will sometimes get stacked when he hits miracle flop or is nutted preflop but you shouldn't let those few bad outcomes skew your thinking. All the times he folds pre, calls pre and folds flop or calls it off post flop and loses will more than make up for what are effectively coolers vs a loose player in a low SPR pot.

As a previous poster noted stack sizes make the 3bet difficult to get right here but I would say just 3bet big and see how villain adjusts. You have to keep adjusting to his adjustments though. If you 3bet big with a wide value range and he initially adjusts badly (still opening wide and calling 3bets OOP preflop) then that's great. As soon as he stops doing that you need to notice and adjust.

With JJ (and QQ/KK) you aren't looking to 3bet big pre and then stack off when overcards come. Being IP means you have a lot more control over the hand. You should be able to force some folds when you miss with AK/AQ/AJ/KQ and simultaneously get value when you hit or have overpairs. Getting value vs an aggro player doesn't always mean betting. Also, vs very loose players when you miss with AQ+ you are still ahead quite frequently and if you know your opponent you can get value for your high card hands too

Remember you will also 3bet some semibluffs with AXs/SC and suited Broadway so your range shouldn't be capped postflop on many boards. Your OOP opponent should hface an impossible task in 3bet pots if you play well IP.

You just have to observe your opponent, know how he plays and then hammer him when you are in position. If he won't back off when OOP you will crush him longterm.

In fact here is an example for you. Short handed game (5 players). Villain is very well known to me as an overly aggro bluffer. He is opening wide and calling 3bets OOP. He knows I 3bet a wide range.

V opens, again. I 3bet him IP with QJhh. He calls OOP and flop is 982r.

V checks, I cbet small and V calls.

Turn 3 putting two diamonds on board. V thinks a while and checks. I check.

River is Kc so no flushes possible. Villain makes a pot sized bet.

I think briefly and call Q high my thinking being V probably had a draw on flop that missed and pot sized bet following my turn check is just buying the pot most of the time. I'm not scared he has paired a K while I know he isn't super afraid of me having KX (whereas AX is a big part of my 3bet range) so he will feel he can represent this river, wrongly. He is unlikely to have a weak pair turned into a bluff because he likes to bet and raise any pairs earlier when he thinks they are still good so I'd have expected a raise of my small flop cbet or a lead on the turn if he had a pair.

V curses and shows QTdd and loses. Thing is the only draws on the flop were SDs and I had the highest gutshot so was fairly confident I'd have him high carded or split the pot.

He was pretty gobsmacked I called him and I had to put up with two hours of him refusing to make bad bluffs against me.

I'm in the 3 betting camp on this hand but as a general rule of thumb (although can vary):

If you're not 3 betting here to take down the pot or isolate, then you should know that by allowing several more opponents in the hand, you are set-mining. Once you miss and see a bet/raise, you should nearly always be throwing your hand away in these situations. -EV spot....

You're glad you missed out on 3betting and getting called by two undercards to your pair? That's not the right way to think. Flatting is just bad against this villain.

I had pretty much the same scenario last night and handled it like OP did. I was kicking myself for sure. Part of my reasoning behind not 3-betting is because earlier on in the night I had 3 bet queens to 60 and got 4 callers! I doubled up on a missed flush draw and took down a $500 pot. I figured that these players weren't folding after calling an initial raise and decided that I would likely just need to have the best hand to win. I folded to an Ace turn. The player that took down this pot later called my 3-bet pre with 9,5. At some tables it just seems that once players call an initial raise they aren't folding to a 3-bet.

I love those tables - just 3bet as big as someone is still prepared to call.

First things first: yes, you're a nit. However, your title implies that the two actions in question are mutually exclusive. They aren't; you can make a good fold here and still be a nit.

This is an example of results-oriented thinking. Don't think this way. If an opponent is open raising 100% of hands, you shouldn't regret not 3 betting JJ because he shows up with a hand that Jacks are a favorite against. Rather, you should regret not 3 betting because Jacks are ahead of his open raising range.

Again, this is resulted-oriented thinking. If you found out he likes seeing flops with suited connectors, this should give you more reason to 3 bet a hand like JJ, since it is a significant favorite pre flop against those hands.

3 betting T9s with JJ is a profitable play, assuming V always calls 3 bets with that hand. The fact that the flop put T9s ahead of JJ does not make the pre flop 3 bet any less profitable. I'm not sure if you do/don't know this already.

This seems bad and partially irrelevant to your hand. Who says villain is going to stack off when he raises a weak donk lead as the pfr?

This should be completely opponent-dependent. If, in general, you are not comfortable getting the money in with an overpair, regardless of your opponent, then you should become more familiar with ranges and player types. This is also apparent when you based your decision of flatting pre on the assumption that V liked his hand.

vs donks who call off a huge 3bet OOP with 9Tcc at live 1/2 you should be, they will give you credit for unpaired overcards and stack off with top pair and/or draws often enough for it to be very profitable.

I'll play a little Devil's Advocate. One of the arguments against 3betting is that we are not up against an ABC passive player. Yes, this guy will call off a decent percentage of his stack preflop with a dominated hand; if he is ABC postflop and just check/folds when he whiffs and doesn't try to bluff us off our hand, perfect, let's 3bet him. But he's not ABC, he's very aggressive, plus also described as the best player at an otherwise very soft table; he can put us to some difficult tests that we had better be ready for. JJ is going to see an overcard(s) lots; are we ready to stack off for 167 bbs postflop on ugly boards in what will probably be a smallish SPR pot? Is he going to steal too many big pots from us? We do have the benefit of position, initiative, and on some flops (such as when we do flop an overpair) the SPR will be small enough to commit; but there are lots of boards / action that won't be as straightforward.

I'm not against a 3bet at all. But at a table described as "super soft", I'm also not convinced we have to get into a potential stacks war with the second best player at the table. At the very least, we have to be prepared for that postflop.

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